Author Topic: Rust Texture for Large Scales?  (Read 1782 times)

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tom mann

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Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« on: July 02, 2014, 10:39:00 PM »
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I've been banging my head against the wall trying to think of a way to get a nice rust texture in 1/29.  In the smaller scales, you can pretty much dab some paint on with a form brush or mix some chalk in and get a subtle texture.  This doesn't work in large scale, since the texture is too fine and everything looks too flat.

As a solution, I came up with the idea to sprinkle stone dust and dirt on top of Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer paint in between coats.  Once dry, I sanded this to get rid of the bigger pieces, and then painted on a few shades of rust colored oils:



What do you think?  It might be a little too much!  This is meant to be underneath the car color, exposed through the salt technique, so maybe when it is finished it'll be less obvious. :tommann:

ednadolski

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2014, 10:57:10 PM »
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Very interesting, but is that supposed to look like rust, or blistering paint?   If rust, then likely it would be old to have spread that much, and so should be substantially darker.   As an undercoat, would you want the unrusted paint surfaces to have the same texture?   This would be easier to evaluate if you have a proto pic of similar scale to compare it against.

Another thought, real rust should be perhaps "patchier" (if that is a word), whereas this is applied rather uniformly across all the metal components.  Perhaps a bit finer sifting/filtering could reduce the intensity of the effect.

Just my $0.02 ;)

Ed

tom mann

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2014, 12:35:56 PM »
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This is close to what I'm going for:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/58295293@N00/14531786213

I'll need to probably knock down all the areas, and then completely smooth it in areas destined to be under the white.

Ian MacMillan

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2014, 03:06:29 AM »
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Cant remember the stuff I used in HO a long time ago. It was a clear paint that you brushed or sprayed on and then an activator that turned it to rust. Could be a good base for further weathering. Got it at Michaels in paint/antiquing aisle.
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DKS

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2014, 08:41:51 AM »
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Looks like overkill to me--that kind of texture I usually only see on really ancient stuff like old abandoned bridges. Also, the oils appear to have given the surface a faint sheen, when rust is usually ├╝ber-flat looking. I've sprinkled chalk dust on wet paint with decent results.

Here's a very old CNJ boxcar. The peeling paint has a lot of texture, but the rusty metal underneath is still a lot smoother than your example.



Even this ancient, neglected Porter doesn't have that much texture.



Cant remember the stuff I used in HO a long time ago. It was a clear paint that you brushed or sprayed on and then an activator that turned it to rust. Could be a good base for further weathering. Got it at Michaels in paint/antiquing aisle.

I tried that stuff ("Patina-It" IIRC), and the results were really strange.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 09:05:48 AM by David K. Smith »

ednadolski

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2014, 10:57:28 AM »
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Cant remember the stuff I used in HO a long time ago. It was a clear paint that you brushed or sprayed on and then an activator that turned it to rust. Could be a good base for further weathering. Got it at Michaels in paint/antiquing aisle.

"Sophisticated Finishes"?  (or something like that?)


Ed

jimmo

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2014, 11:09:16 AM »
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Even in a model as large as your 1:29 scale railcar, texture is still way less of a factor than coloration. If you get close up to one of those 1:1 scale rusty cars, you'll notice that they are pretty smooth, almost as if the paint was sanded off. These modern railcar finishes don't usually peel and flake but are worn off by the elements, leaving a textureless finish.

A lot of times we (as modelers) apply 1:1 scale textures to our models in an attempt to convince our own eyes that it looks real instead of scaling it down to the size it should be.
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ednadolski

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2014, 11:16:45 AM »
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Here's a very old CNJ boxcar. The peeling paint has a lot of texture, but the rusty metal underneath is still a lot smoother than your example.



It may be smoother, but the rust patches actually have at least 4 or 5 variations in the color.  Just speculating, perhaps that could be replicated by a base coat of rust color (flat spray), then a couple of layers of varying colors applies with a torn cosmetic sponge.  A slight texture could be built up in areas where larger patches are desired.  Seal w/Dullcote, then apply a top color coat over a salt mask, then knock off the salt to reveal the underlying rust coat.   (maybe this has been tried before - probably by the military modelers)

I recall a picture of a weathered hopper having textured rust that was done using various layers of paints and powders, and sealed with layers of hairspray.  Very effective, and convincingly captured many subtle tone variations.  I wish I could find it, but it was by Rich Divizio on the long-defunct Model Trains Weathered site, so it is probably gone for good.

Ed



DKS

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2014, 11:23:05 AM »
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A lot of times we (as modelers) apply 1:1 scale textures to our models in an attempt to convince our own eyes that it looks real instead of scaling it down to the size it should be.

This. And... guilty as charged.

Ian MacMillan

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2014, 07:31:41 PM »
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"Sophisticated Finishes"?  (or something like that?)


Ed

That would be it.
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tom mann

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2014, 08:44:38 PM »
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In this case, I think I appreciate the over-exaggeration!

I used the Sophisticated Finishes and even wrote a little about them in my Weathering Book (have you purchased your copy yet?).  The texture was ok, but it was difficult to control the colorization.

ednadolski

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2014, 10:27:45 PM »
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have you purchased your copy yet?

I've kept my copy under my pillow for years... can't sleep without it, you know ;)

Ed

Ian MacMillan

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #12 on: July 08, 2014, 10:46:05 PM »
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Quote from: tom mann link=topic=33246.msg381473#msg381473
The texture was ok, but it was difficult to control the colorization.
[/quote

Yeah but you are looking for a base, so color doesn't matter.
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jimmo

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2014, 11:28:27 PM »
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In this case, I think I appreciate the over-exaggeration!

I used the Sophisticated Finishes and even wrote a little about them in my Weathering Book (have you purchased your copy yet?).  The texture was ok, but it was difficult to control the colorization.

I'm going to keep repeating this until you guys get it. COLORATION IS KEY, texture is secondary or less. Even in the larger scales. You can make the model look like it was sprayed with Fleck-Stone (if you think that looks good) but you better get the color right!

Exaggeration for clarity is trying too hard--show some confidence.  :D
James R. Will

Hyperion

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Re: Rust Texture for Large Scales?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2014, 11:30:29 PM »
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Even in the 1/35 armor world, we focus very little on the texture of rust.  Texture of dirt/mud, sure, it's got literally hundreds of times the volume in most cases; or even peeling paint.  But, for rust, even on highly deteriorated areas like exhaust shrouds, the focus is on many variations of colors that often gives the multi-dimensional illusion of texture as fine as surface rust.  Chalks/Pastels/Powders are used sometimes and the texture of built-up/stippled oil paints in cases of high deterioration, like metal that's been nearly completely rotted through -- like thin exhaust shrouds.

I think Tom's effect is nice -- but not as 'rust texture'.  If it were any other color it'd suffice for paint in really, really bad condition similar to the photos shown.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 11:33:44 PM by Hyperion »
-Mark