DCC Conversions produce coffee grinders - help

[u18b]

Let us see a photo of what bearing you are talking about.

[Power Stroke]

Ron.
That would be the bearing that is used on the Atlas/Kato RS drives. They are in all 3 of my RS11s and RSD12.
All 4 bearing blocks have a spherical bearing inside that fully rotates. This by far is the best design, and if they are available, would make an outstanding
replacement for the plain plastic blocks. I am with Max.

[u18b]

I'm familiar with that bearing.  But Max has Kato F units.

I'm not sure that bearing was used that late on locos with the spider u-joint.

[peteski]

Max,
unfortunately the nice bronze ball-shaped bearings which can align themselves if the fit in the chassis is not perfect are the older stye, and AFAIK long unavailable.

Like what seem to happen to many manufactured items as the time goes forward, they were replaced with the cheap all-plastic bearings.  I'm sure they were quite a bit more expensive to manufacture than a single-molding all-plastic bearing.  They are cheaper and easier to make but the precision is gone.

[mmagliaro]

Yes yes.... they look like this:

(photo shows "new" style, a photo swiped from Kato's website, and below are the "old" style I replaced them with).

ALSO... the fork coupling to the flywheel:
On F unit "1", which already HAD these bronze-ball type bearings, that engine also has the fork couplings to the flywheel like
 the ones in PowerStroke's photos.   That F unit does NOT have the little ball in it like the other F unit.

The photo below, top half, shows the bearings and the ball couplings that my F unit "2" had.  Now, it still has the ball couplings, but I put
the bronze-lined bearings in it.

[jdcolombo]

Those bearings are also in my Atlas/Kato RS-3's and an RSD-12. 

John C.

[peteski]

Those bearings are also in my Atlas/Kato RS-3's and an RSD-12. 

John C.

I suspect that those are the early Katos from the 80s (with truck-mounted couplers). Is that correct?  I also think that some of the Con-Cor/Kato made models also used those bearings.  Maybe the PAs?

[jdcolombo]

I suspect that those are the early Katos from the 80s (with truck-mounted couplers). Is that correct?  I also think that some of the Con-Cor/Kato made models also used those bearings.  Maybe the PAs?

Yes, they are the early version from the 80's with the old-style trucks before Kato went to the "low friction" design with needle points in the brass cups.  They used to have truck-mounted couplers, but have long since been converted to body mounts with an MT conversion kit.  The reason I know they have these bearings is that I just pulled them off the shelf, took them apart, cleaned them, and installed a Lenz Silver Mini in them.  The darn things run great, even if they have the "old" truck pickup technology and no flywheels.

John C.

[davefoxx]

Sorry that I haven't been able to provide any input until now, but we've been away this holiday weekend.  First and foremost, I am pro-Beardenization.  Ron has been very clear that his fix is only for four-axle drivelines that have no universals.  For this reason, I agree that the inner bearing does nothing but cause friction.  Therefore, I have no issue with removing a part that serves no significant purpose.  I believe that those folks who have had problems with this modification have not adjusted the hex shaped piece that engages the flywheel to allow just a little movement front-to-back in the worm.

I admit that I have not modified all of my locomotives yet.  I have Beardenized those Atlas locomotives that have given me trouble or when I have torn them down for through cleaning.  I believe that the "grinding" occurs when the bearings are not put back in the same orientation as from the factory or when the frame halves are overtightened.  The worst thing you could do is put the bearings in turned ninety degrees, because if I recall correctly, they're not square.

Beardenization works for me.  If you check my Seaboard Central thread, you'll see that I tore down two locomotives recently and Beardenized them.  One of them was a grinder from the factory; the other used to run well but deteriorated with age.  The second unit also got a new motor, but now they are two of my better running locomotives.

Just my two cents,
DFF

[mmagliaro]

The bearings I used in my modification came out of a plastic packet of parts I bought at a train show.  They are completely unmarked,
however, there is a really long drive shaft, about 2-1/2" long, with a worm, two of those bearings, and a barrel/cup gear like the type
used in the Arnold GP30 and other Arnold engines.  I don't think I've ever seen that barrel gear in anything but an Arnold engine,
so I'm wondering if these bearings came from there.  I did have to file one face of the plastic bearing thinner to get it to drop into the Kato frame.  It did not quite fit before I did that, so I doubt that this bearing came from a Kato engine.

I have scoured the internet, and it does not look like anyone makes a bearing (or "bushing" as they are sometimes called) like this.
There are plenty like this in much larger sizes, but nothing with a tiny 1.5mm bore.

If it were possible to buy, say, a package of 20 of these things, I would make it a routine procedure to replace the bearings with these
on any diesel I service.   In fact, the Kato C55 steam loco also has all-plastic block bearings and would probably improve with these, even though it runs really well as-is.
Say.... my SP&S 4-6-2 project has one of those bearings in it.... (light bulb)...

[peteski]

The bearings I used in my modification came out of a plastic packet of parts I bought at a train show.  They are completely unmarked,
however, there is a really long drive shaft, about 2-1/2" long, with a worm, two of those bearings, and a barrel/cup gear like the type
used in the Arnold GP30 and other Arnold engines.  I don't think I've ever seen that barrel gear in anything but an Arnold engine,
so I'm wondering if these bearings came from there.  I did have to file one face of the plastic bearing thinner to get it to drop into the Kato frame.  It did not quite fit before I did that, so I doubt that this bearing came from a Kato engine.

Maybe it was for one of the oddball Kato/Con-Cor locos (some of the longer U-units)?

[victor miranda]

I have tried to find the ball shaped, sintered bronze, with 1.5 mm hole thingus many times.

it is often called a spherical bushing if that helps...

my source was Atlas and I ordered them (rs3 bearing blocks)
I know some one makes them because they are in the Kato 4 wheel trolly motor.
(you have to make your own blocks?)

.... it is easier and cheaper to order ball bearings off e-bay/china.
try these
10pcs 1.5 x 4 x 1.2mm 681X Miniature Bearings mini open bearing 1.5 x 4 x 1.2mm

and better price  is
100 pcs 681X Miniature Bearings mini open bearing 1.5x4x1.2 1.5*4*1.2 mm 681X

the spherical bushings should be pretty cheap.... if you can find them.

[u18b]

Max,
Those bearings are from an Atlas RS-3 made by Kato in Japan.

The Atlas part number is...  42002

Not sure if they have any.  You'd have to call.

http://www.atlasrr.com/pdf/N%20ALCO%20RS3%20DIESEL%20LOCO.pdf

Kato also used that same ball (without the plastic housing) in the second run of the GP-38-2.  It was the bearing on the outboard side of the flywheel/worms.

[peteski]

.... it is easier and cheaper to order ball bearings off e-bay/china.
try these
10pcs 1.5 x 4 x 1.2mm 681X Miniature Bearings mini open bearing 1.5 x 4 x 1.2mm

the spherical bushings should be pretty cheap.... if you can find them.

Mini ball bearings will of course have much less friction than the bronze bushings - if they are properly aligned.  One advantage of those spherical bushings is that even if the plastic housing is not perfectly aligned in the chassis, the spherical bearing will align itself to the worm shaft.

[victor miranda]

Mini ball bearings will of course have much less friction than the bronze bushings - if they are properly aligned.  One advantage of those spherical bushings is that even if the plastic housing is not perfectly aligned in the chassis, the spherical bearing will align itself to the worm shaft.

good news!
the axial play on these is enough that you can install them by eye and not worry.

you may need a more expensive set to require perfect alignment.

again, these are available.  I am still looking for the bead type.

victor