PC gondola question

[nkalanaga]

This car is an ancient Kadee (pre-MicroTrains) drop-end gondola which claims to be a PC G47.  Everything I've been able to find says the G47 had fixed ends, and all of the PC gons I've found pictures of had numbers starting with "5".  So:

Did the PC have any cars reasonably similar to this car?
If so, what number series and class?


Kadee 50 ft drop end gondola in PC paint.

Thank you.

[Snark45]

http://prr.railfan.net/freight/modeling/freightmodelphotos.html?photo=prr_g31_374913.jpg&fr=clG31

Just a thought...

Harry

[ljudice]

PC's G47's were 580100-199  and were purchased new from Freuhoff.  The model isn't even close, starting with the length which should be 52' 6"

The G31, G35 and G36 were closer, but still 52' - and #'s in the 5xxxxxx's

- Lou

[bbussey]

Not even close.  Too short in length and it might be too tall also for whatever prototype it was based on.

[ljudice]

I don't want to bash MTL, but these gons are puzzlers. I believe they are based on 52' 6" prototypes - but despite the fact that they have their own unique underframe - not shared by 50' boxcars, they are too short. 

And of course too tall, a problem accentuated by the shortness....

It's a shame since they are otherwise so nice and could be useful.

[CoalPorter]

I don't want to bash MTL, but these gons are puzzlers. I believe they are based on 52' 6" prototypes - but despite the fact that they have their own unique underframe - not shared by 50' boxcars, they are too short. 

And of course too tall, a problem accentuated by the shortness....

It's a shame since they are otherwise so nice and could be useful.

I'm close to certain that the micro-trains gondolas use the same underframe as the flat cars...im going to
check right away

ps: I wonder why spell check does no think underframe is a word ? isn't that annoying ?

[bbussey]

I believe you are correct.  But most flatcars from the transition era were 52' also, so it wasn't a matter of compressing the gondola to share parts with a prototypical flatcar model.  However, the N scale gondola/flatcar compression in the 1960s/70s was an industry thing overall rather than just a Kadee thing.  All the manufacturers at the time did the same thing.

[ljudice]

Forgot about the flatcars!

It's unfortunate, these are otherwise nice cars, and of course there are those Aurora??  gons that look like a Pennsy car with short side extensions.

I love/hate spell check/correctors, but on phones they can do some nasty things...   

[bbussey]

G36 class.  A shame, because those cars would have been very salvageable after chucking the roofs if they were the correct length.

[nkalanaga]

Thank you, everybody.  These four-day, ten-hour work weeks with commute are a pain for reading forums!

Harry:  That is about as close as I've seen, but it still has the solid ends. 

And, yes, the MT car does share the flatcar underframe.  The GN, and probably other roads, had quite a few 50 ft flatcars less than 52ft 6in long, so the flatcar may be correct for someone.  The gon, on the other hand, is definitely too short.  Lowering it isn't a problem, just cut the bolsters off the underframe, keep the middle as a weight, build new bolsters, and body mount 1015 or 1025 couplers.  You can even keep the pizza cutters if you like.

After not finding any car that matched, or any reference online to a G30 class, I too the easy way out.  There also were no pictures of a 511xxx series, and several of PC cars with non-italic numbers, so I labeled it a "G30F", with the "F" standing for freelanced.  Since I'm not a PC modeler, and don't personally know any, at least the car is in service.  Here's the result.  It's not the clearest picture, but the lettering isn't that different, and you can see the difference lowering the car makes.  PC 511008, with numbers from an ancient set of Northeast Decals C&O boxcar decals.  Odd source, maybe, but they matched the numbers on several PC gons online.



Unfortunately, the other MT "50 ft" gon, the one sold with covers, is also too short, even though it's a much newer model.  I suspect the reason was to fit the standard jewel boxes, which were originally designed by the European manufacturers, and fit European wagons nicely.  With Rapido couplers 50 ft cars would fit, but many 52 ft cars were just a bit too long.

[skm]

Your car looks great! And a good solution to make it work...

As further info for those following the thread, I found a pic online of the PRR class G28, for which the MTL/Kadee gon is a reasonable facsimile.
Interesting how low over the trucks the gon sits. It is 52' 6" IL and has drop ends, a lever-type handbrake and the ribs over the bolsters are wider than the rest.


And a link to the class page on Rob's site.
http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G28

FWIW: BLMA made a class G31 which is extremely pretty and accurate to boot!

[nkalanaga]

Thank you!  I don't know if it would be worth changing the class on my car, but that is probably about as close as we'll find.

And Rob does list a G30 class, but no G30F, so it looks like I'm safe.  My chosen number, according to him, was an X23 boxcar!  That may not mean anything, though, because I assume PC renumbered a lot of cars when they merged the PRR and NYC rosters.

(Firefox's spell check flags PRR but accepts NYC...)

[wm3798]

Identifying it as a Kadee car, and the picture with the rapido couplers, puts this model back in the dark ages, and cries of foul for its lack of proto fidelity are akin to yelling that Lincoln could have won the Civil War in 20 minutes if only he'd deployed Abrams tanks at Bull Run.

The foul comes from current era Micro Trains, which continues to produce these shorties in volume while other manufacturers are raising the bar on details and accuracy.

That said, strung in a line, filled with scrap, and weathered up a bit they flesh out a train nicely, and the abbreviated length lets you put an extra one in siding now and then!

Lee

[nkalanaga]

That's my attitude.  Unless you measure them they "look right", and in this case the only cost was a few inches of styrene strip, a few dry transfer letters, some paint, and 1025 coupler boxes and screws.  The solid bearing trucks and Rapido couplers went in the parts box, replaced by a pair of roller bearing trucks from the same box.  The couplers came off the new trucks and into the boxes, which I bought in bulk just for that reason.  So it was a lot cheaper than buying a new car, and for my purposes will work just as well.  If I was modeling the PC, or Conrail, it would probably be another matter.  In that case I'd want an accurate model, and likely would repaint this in for the BN, or some other western road, or just leave it in the box.

That box has a price tag on it from "Bailey's Toys & Hobbies", a long out of business shop originally in Pasco, WA, and dated 10-78.  The price shown was $4.50.  They dated all of their price tags, so one knew how long the merchandise had been sitting on the shelf.  Since we moved to Kentucky in late July of 78, this car had to have been bought on one of our trips back, probably in 81 or 83, if this is the original lid.  It may not be, since I wasn't careful about keeping stored cars in pristine condition!  I doubt that it's any later than that, though, because by then I was buying cars with knuckle couplers whenever possible.

In any case it is definitely a Kadee car, not modern MT, and at the time was one of the best gondolas available.  The closest competition was the Con-Cor car, which is even shorter.

[bbussey]

It was the best by far when it arrived on the scene and continued to be for a long time.  But other manufacturers have caught up and blown past.  There are at least six gons from six different manufacturers on the market now that are markedly better.