Micro Trains May Releases

[Sokramiketes]

Fair enough.  Now that I look more closely ... should the missing PULLMANs in the corners, position of the lower stripe and the font on the railroad name matter?

Yes, of course.   

[bbussey]

I guess my roster is too large and my time to limited to worry about every single item to be perfectly accurate.  Yes it would be great if every company got every detail correctly every time.  It's not going to happen.  That being said I don't think it is fair to give someone crap for wanting to buy a car that is or is going to be produced with errors if it gives the right feel for a car that could be seen on their layout.  It is one thing to have a C&NW Kato dome car sitting in your coach yard, compared to a 10-1-2 sleeper with the wrong shade of silver for the lettering.

You're right in that people should buy whatever they want to buy without getting flak for it.  But if someone specifically asks me twice how accurate the model is, I'm going to answer to the best of my knowledge.  I don't think that's giving anyone crap.  And, I did answer Otto's question in the affirmative before he even asked it ... and I answered incorrectly, as it turns out, because there are graphics missing/misplaced/incorrect on the model, so it's not simply an issue of lettering color.

Regarding accuracy - no one is going to get it right all of the time, whether it is necessary concessions due to scale or simply oversight.  But I don't think it's too much to expect companies to make sincere attempts to get it right, and to present accurate accompanied information, and to state when something is an approximation ... so that the consumer has all the pertinent information at hand to decide whether or not to purchase the item.

[NYC1956]

Sorry, but the Pullman records indicate that the car named EAST ALTON remained in Pullman Green. It seems even the PULLMAN letterboard remained, although the car had been purchased by NYC in December 1948. The car was off the roster by October 1956 and probably scrapped. The NYC had about 130 12-1s and only a few were ever repainted into the TTG scheme - this was not one of them. Oh, and as for being in service into the 1960s - wrong again. Several of the NYC 12-1s were eventually bought by NdeM between 1958-1960. Those cars would have been in service into the 1960s but wearing Spanish names.

[Sokramiketes]

Sorry, but the Pullman records indicate that the car named EAST ALTON remained in Pullman Green. It seems even the PULLMAN letterboard remained, although the car had been purchased by NYC in December 1948. The car was off the roster by October 1956 and probably scrapped. The NYC had about 130 12-1s and only a few were ever repainted into the TTG scheme - this was not one of them. Oh, and as for being in service into the 1960s - wrong again. Several of the NYC 12-1s were eventually bought by NdeM between 1958-1960. Those cars would have been in service into the 1960s but wearing Spanish names.

See, now this is a bigger deal.

So what names would be correct for TTG?

[bbussey]

Alright, I looked it up the New York Central heavyweight data for the state of cars after the A/C was installed, which is what the MTL models are based on.

10-1-2, Plan 3585.  Two cars: Lake Tahoe, EM A/C; Lake Huntley, ice A/C. Pullman green paint only.
10-1-2, Plan 3585A.  One car: Lake Colville, EM A/C.  Pullman green paint only.
12-1, Plan 3410.  Seventy-one cars total.  Nine cars painted two-tone gray, all PM A/C: St Claude, McCullough, McDavid, McKellar, McMada, McWillie, East Batavia, East Brewster, East Concord.
12-1, Plan 3410A.  Fifty-seven cars total.  Seven cars painted two-tone gray, all PM A/C: East Clarance, East Somerville, East Syracuse, East Toledo, Orange City, Red Bird, Wigwam.
12-1, Plan 3410B.  Seven cars: Nagawicka, SE A/C; Albany, PM A/C; Dunkirk, PM A/C; Rome, PM A/C; Syracuse, PM A/C; Troy, PM A/C; Utica, PMB A/C.  Pullman green paint only.
28-1 parlor, Plan 3416.  Eight cars: Faith, PM A/C; Pansy, PM A/C; Roxana, PM A/C; Stella, PM A/C; Theresa, PM A/C; Cosmos, EM A/C; Dahlia, EM A/C; Violet, PM A/C.  Pullman green paint only.
28-1 parlor, Plan 3416A.  Seventeen cars, Pullman green paint only.
28-1 parlor, Plan 3416B.  Four cars, Pullman green paint only, all PM A/C.  Audrey, Eileen, Gwendolyn, Olivia.
28-1 parlor, Plan 3416C.  Four cars, Pullman green paint only, all PM A/C.  Cornelia, Canna, Crocus, Bertha.
4-2L obs, Plan 3950C.  None.
3-2L obs, Plan 3959.  None.

So, only sixteen 12-1 sleepers were painted in NYC two-tone gray.  Dates are first appearance of paint scheme (NYC on letterboard, PULLMAN in corners), cancellation of Pullman lease (no PULLMAN lettering), and disposition, followed by number of years in grays:

St. Claude. 3/56, 10/57, 3/58.  Two years.
McCullough. 5/53, 11/57, 5/59.  Six years.
McDavid. 2/54, 11/57, 9/58.  Four years, seven months.
McKellar. 6/53, 10/57, 3/59.  Five years, nine months.
McMada. 8/54, 10/57, 10/57.  Three years, two months.
McWillie. 8/53, 11/57, 11/59.  Six years, three months.
East Batavia. 9/53, 10/57, 9/60.  Seven years.
East Brewster. 2/54, 9/56, 9/56.  Two years, seven months.
East Concord. 3/54, 8/57, 3/59.  Five years.
East Clarence. 5/53, 11/56, 11/56.  Three years, six months.
East Somerville. 2/56, 10/57, 11/58.  Two years, nine months.
East Syracuse. 3/55, 10/57, 10/57.  Two years, seven months.
East Toledo. 6/53, 10/57, 3/60.  Six years, nine months.
Orange City. 7/53, 9/56, 9/56.  Three years, two months.
Red Bird. 1/54, 9/56, 9/56.  Two years, eight months.
Wigwam. 10/53, 9/55, 9/55.  One year, eleven months.

Unknown if/when car names were removed and numbers were substituted.  Car numbers also unknown, but the NYCRHS probably could provide them.

[NYC1956]

I found 17 12-1s painted TTG. First date is date of application of TTG. Second date is when Pullman lease was terminated and car removed from service.

NYC 12-1 Pullmans Painted TTG:

EAST TOLEDO (6/2/53) (Oct 57) To NdeM 3/16/60
MCKELLAR (6/9/53) (Oct 57) To NdeM 3/20/59
MCCULLOUGH (5/28/53) (Sep 56) To NdeM Sep 59
EAST CONCORD (3/3/54) (Oct 57) To NdeM 3/21/59
EAST BATAVIA (9/24/53) (Oct 57) To NdeM 9/13/58
EAST SYRACUSE (3/17/55) (Oct 57)
EAST SOMERVILLE (2/17/56) (Oct 57) To NdeM 11/25/58
EAST BREWSTER (2/4/54) (Sep 56) converted to dormitory car 2784
MCDAVID (2/17/54) (Nov 57) To NdeM 9/18/58
MCEWENSVILLE (11/1/54) (Oct 57) To NdeM 9/15/58
MCMADA (8/25/54) (Oct 57)
MCWILLIE (8/6/53) (Nov 57) To NdeM 11/9/59
ORANGE CITY (7/16/53) (Sep 56) converted to dormitory car 2787
EAST CLARENCE (5/18/53) (Nov 56) converted to dormitory car 2782
RED BIRD (1/20/54) (Sep 56) converted to dormitory car 2783
ST. CLAUDE (3/6/56) (Oct 57) To NdeM 3/11/58
WIGWAM (10/8/53) (Sep 55)

After May 1954 NYC-owned Pullmans were lettered NEW YORK CENTRAL in the center with smaller PULLMAN at either end.
Prior to that, the main letterboard would have still been PULLMAN.
They got the underbody color correct, it was listed as "Plymouth Gunmetal" until 1958 when it was changed to black. The trucks should also have been the same color as the underbody.
If I can find this stuff, why can't the manufacturers?

[CBQ Fan]

You're right in that people should buy whatever they want to buy without getting flak for it.  But if someone specifically asks me twice how accurate the model is, I'm going to answer to the best of my knowledge.  I don't think that's giving anyone crap.  And, I did answer Otto's question in the affirmative before he even asked it ... and I answered incorrectly, as it turns out, because there are graphics missing/misplaced/incorrect on the model, so it's not simply an issue of lettering color.

Regarding accuracy - no one is going to get it right all of the time, whether it is necessary concessions due to scale or simply oversight.  But I don't think it's too much to expect companies to make sincere attempts to get it right, and to present accurate accompanied information, and to state when something is an approximation ... so that the consumer has all the pertinent information at hand to decide whether or not to purchase the item.

My comment was not aimed at you specifically, more of a general comment overall on these situations in general here.  It is tough, if you don't buy it due to a minor error you can pretty much guarantee no follow up offerings, but then they continue their mistake through the product line.  Think of Milwaukee Road trucks.  Black on the RPO but brown on every other car.  I had to buy a set of brown just to make it match.

[Cajonpassfan]

Many thanks to Bryan, and Mike (NYC1956), for doing the research for me
Seriously, thank you both!
I was surprised to learn that the TTG heavyweights on the NYC were a product of a later era; I have several NYC lightweight cars in TTG on my circa '50 California layout (a 10-5, 10-6 and 4-4-2 transcon cars ran on the Chief and UP LA Limited) and I had assumed a TTG heavyweight would be appropriate for a tourist train and a good excuse to support MT. I had better stick to green Pullmans in pool service for that train....
Regards, Otto

[NYC1956]

Unknown if/when car names were removed and numbers were substituted.  Car numbers also unknown, but the NYCRHS probably could provide them.

Car numbers are available for those cars purchased by the NYC, but see this:
After April 10, 1958 – Pullman cars lettered NEW YORK CENTRAL. Dining cars, coaches and headend cars lettered NEW YORK CENTRAL. 4” car numbers added to sleeper car sides under car name. [As most heavyweight Pullmans were off the roster by this time, the car numbers were likely never applied.]

[bbussey]

My comment was not aimed at you specifically, more of a general comment overall on these situations in general here.  It is tough, if you don't buy it due to a minor error you can pretty much guarantee no follow up offerings, but then they continue their mistake through the product line.  Think of Milwaukee Road trucks.  Black on the RPO but brown on every other car.  I had to buy a set of brown just to make it match.

At least they corrected the MILW error.  Regarding the NYC TTG, it seems they should have run just the RPO and stopped there.  But no, in all likelihood the last three bodystyles will appear in TTG over the next few months as well.

[bbussey]

Many thanks to Bryan, and Mike (NYC1956), for doing the research for me
Seriously, thank you both!
I was surprised to learn that the TTG heavyweights on the NYC were a product of a later era; I have several NYC lightweight cars in TTG on my circa '50 California layout (a 10-5, 10-6 and 4-4-2 transcon cars ran on the Chief and UP LA Limited) and I had assumed a TTG heavyweight would be appropriate for a tourist train and a good excuse to support MT. I had better stick to green Pullmans in pool service for that train....
Regards, Otto

Otto — On those green Pullmans, if you want some more accuracy (since the car names must be added anyway) the lettering color should be imitation gold instead of gold leaf.  Gold leaf lettering was retired well before heavyweights were equipped with A/C.

[CBQ Fan]

At least they corrected the MILW error.  Regarding the NYC TTG, it seems they should have run just the RPO and stopped there.  But no, in all likelihood the last three bodystyles will appear in TTG over the next few months as well.

You are most likely correct on additional TTG heavyweights.  It is the best plastic heavyweight cars ever on the market and a very popular scheme so they will sell and make money.  I agree with providing MT more accurate info on future cars if there are any accurate offered and in the TTG scheme.  Paint color is not as easy to correct and allow for an easy match like swapping trucks.

[bbussey]

You are most likely correct on additional TTG heavyweights.  It is the best plastic heavyweight cars ever on the market and a very popular scheme so they will sell and make money.  I agree with providing MT more accurate info on future cars if there are any accurate offered and in the TTG scheme.  Paint color is not as easy to correct and allow for an easy match like swapping trucks.

You've hit the nail on the head.  Based on the highlighted part of your statement above, it's unlikely that the TTG group of cars will be aborted or "fixed."

[Sokramiketes]

In a moment of weakness I picked up the 12-1, East Alton, tonight.

The whole car side is "painted" with the new 3D inkjet process. So it sparkles like a disco ball. The ends are not painted the same way and are a completely different shade of gray. Same with the underbody.

Also, the car was crooked in the printing fixture, so the stripes are angled on the car side. With the white stripes half on and half off the battens, it looks like an elongated BNSF power bar instead of a simple 2" stripe.

I used to say that I was disappointed because MTL had the sharpest tooling and best printing in the industry, and that the frustration was that they didn't use the talent to create great prototype models.

Now between the faceted tooling marks in the air ducts on this model, and the horrible painting, there are no redeeming qualities left. How frustrating.

[peteski]

In a moment of weakness I picked up the 12-1, East Alton, tonight.

The whole car side is "painted" with the new 3D inkjet process. So it sparkles like a disco ball. The ends are not painted the same way and are a completely different shade of gray. Same with the underbody.

I've been saying this for a while now. See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28938 The ink jet process is just not up to the standard I would expect from MT.  Maybe cars from the beer-reefer set were decorated that way. I was going to post my evaluation of them here, but haven't found the time yet.   I noticed that on some of those cars MT did a satin clear overspray. That improved the appearance considerably (the sparkling effect was reduced) but I am still not happy with the overall quality of that type of decoration. The fuzziness of the edges is noticeable as is the thickness of the ink.  Since MT is using the ink jet printing process on more and more cars, that has curbed my desire to collect their cars.