Author Topic: Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?  (Read 1609 times)

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mmagliaro

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Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?
« on: April 04, 2014, 12:28:22 PM »
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If you have a Kato or Con-Cor 4-8-4 S2, I'm trying to collect some data on a noise issue.
(otherwise, feel free to hit your "back" button if you're not interested!)

I have a Kato S2 4-8-4 chassis under my SP&S 4-8-4 #700 kitbash.   It has always had a mysterious
squeak as it comes out of curves or runs over turnouts.  It did this when it was a plain old GN 4-8-4.
It doesn't always do it, and it doesn't always do it in the same places or on the same curves or turnouts.

I also have an unmodified Con-Cor version (also the GN 4-8-4 S2).   It does exactly the same thing.
"Squeak" may not be quite the right word.  "Screetch" might be better.   It sounds like a metal wheel or axle
briefly dragging over something and making a "chirp".  It's pretty darn loud and while it lasts for a fraction of
a second, it's a LONG fraction of a second (it's not just a blip... it's a rather pronounced sound, like
the chirping of your brake wear indicators when your car's brake pads are worn out)

Of course, I tried polishing wheel treads and axles and looking for any hung-up pilot or trailing wheels.  That didn't help.
I also even tried (ewwwww) putting a drop of oil on each axle, axle hole, and bearing.   No difference.  (You would think
that the problem would at least abate temporarily if I had found the source of the noise)

The plot thickens.   I was just talking to a friend of mine who has two of these.  They BOTH do the same thing
on his layout.  My layout is Atlas code 55.  His is all code 80, so the trackwork, turnouts, environment, and engines
are completely different, and yet all 4 engines do this.

FOR those of you who own these,  is this a common issue?  Do you have this weird squeaking, screetching noise?

u18b

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Re: Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2014, 01:08:10 PM »
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My guess is the internal flanges on the tender.

Kato locos from that era did not use end-axle needle bearings.

Instead, a bar road on top of the axle.  This bar is constrained by an inner lip.

My guess is that this is where the squeaking is coming from.
Ron Bearden
CSX N scale Archivist
http://u18b.com

"All get what they want-- not all like what they get."  Aslan the Lion in the Chronicles of Narnia by C.S.Lewis.

mmagliaro

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Re: Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 01:30:24 PM »
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My guess is the internal flanges on the tender.

Kato locos from that era did not use end-axle needle bearings.

Instead, a bar road on top of the axle.  This bar is constrained by an inner lip.

My guess is that this is where the squeaking is coming from.

Hmmmm... I will check, Ron.  Although I have had lots of ConCor/Kato 4-6-4 engines from that era with that same pickup
bar and internal flange arrangment and never seen this.  And I should point out that the squeaking over turnouts
occurs when the engine is going over the turnout, not the tender.  I am more suspicious of the driver flanges or driver treads scraping, but I have never been able to prove or identify this.

Mark.S+10

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Re: Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2014, 12:11:43 AM »
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Max,

I've got the Chinese version Con-Cor 4-8-4.  It makes no squeaking noise going around corners.  This version has bearing blocks. 

Good luck figuring it out, Mark
« Last Edit: April 05, 2014, 12:22:02 AM by Mark.S+10 »

mmagliaro

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Re: Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2014, 01:17:41 AM »
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Max,

I've got the Chinese version Con-Cor 4-8-4.  It makes no squeaking noise going around corners.  This version has bearing blocks. 

Good luck figuring it out, Mark

Thanks, Mark.  My ConCor one is like yours - Chinese-built, bearing blocks, DCC board in the tender.
It is not as squeaky as the Kato un-bearing-blocked one, but it does occasionally do it.  The other modeler
I spoke of also has ones like yours that squeak.
From the dearth of replies, I get the feeling that this is not a common problem, which is good.  But it's pretty
freaky that the immediate four I am working with (2 of mine and 2 of someone else's) have the problem.  That was leading
me to think it was wide-spread, but that is apparently not true.

victor miranda

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Re: Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2014, 01:30:09 AM »
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any chance the pilot is hitting the rail?

Mark.S+10

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Re: Squeaking Kato/Con-Cor 4-8-4 - Others see this?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2014, 09:42:45 PM »
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Max,

When I got my Con Cor GS-4 out to test it I noticed it would hesitate and sometimes stop at low speeds, however when it stopped the light remained on.  So I went to pull the motor to check the motor contacts and it looks like you can't pull the motor without completely separating the frames.  Is that correct or is there an easy way to get the motor out?

Thanks, Mark