How would you design a 20ft X 12 ft wide train room?

[Flagler]

Hi Pete,how do get from level 2 & level 3 ,Helix? What are the distances between levels?I like the plans

[OldEastRR]

You would be best to get a handle on what kind of railroad operation you like. Not meaning a schedule, card op, etc "operation", but what you'd like to do with the trains you run and how you'd like their setting to look.
"Just want to see some trains running around" is not a concept for planning a layout. Unfortunately many beginners use that as the only one.
Then it depends on whether you like continuous running, or trains made in one yard then sent to another yard and broken down, lots of or very little on-line and in-town industry switching, heavy passenger train presence (with or without a big terminal and coach yard), multi-track multi-train freight running, etc etc etc.
Next is what kind of scenery you'd like to have your trains run through - and there you've got every kind of terrain imaginable to choose from.
The last part of this phase is to then plan how to use the space you have to get as close  to your choices as you can. It really makes a big difference in what you wind up with.

[Denver Road Doug]

Oh, to dream!

This is the easiest question I've ever answered in a MRR forum. (assuming door placement is wide-open)   I would choose an end-door, and an "E" configuration.  I seriously could design this layout in minutes...I know exactly what I would do and *mostly* how I would do it.

Standard would be 3 1/2 ft aisles, with two pinchpoints where the center leg of the E turns, probably down to 3ft.  Top and center legs of the E would be very narrow...less than a foot in places.  Bottom leg of the E would be thicker....1.5-2ft...to house the endpoints of the two-levels of sceniced model railroad.  There would be a third staging level below.  Pretty much a parade of passing sidings between the two endpoints of Saginaw, TX and Wichita Falls, TX.

Top level would be Saginaw to Alvord, bottom would be Bowie to Wichita Falls.  It would just be lots of long, glorious stretches of track and yellow grass and a show presented by BNSF.

[Flagler]

 Hi Doug, That's the kind of input I am looking for. E or G below U

[conrail98]

Either an E shaped or a G shaped layout would most likely be best. I have a 11' x 18' space and mine's G-shaped, I found the benchwork flowed al title better that way,

Phil

[soo]

I have to go with Doug on this... E or G is the way to go.  I also would do multiple levels, for staging and longer runs with more towns/station stops.

I would do narrow shelfs, maybe between 18"-12" which would leave more aisle space. I like big aisles,, more room to move around.

I do know if that were my room,and if I had turn back loops,, I would offset them from the peninsula loop as to provide for space to walk between the blobs.

I just drew something up real quick,, 18" radius curves.


I was not paying attention to track spacing and other stuff. The room is drawn at 12'x20', I dont know where the doors/windows are at,, so that is major factor in what you plan.

One thing to remember,, if there is one little thing that bothers you,dont build it till you like all of it.

 Do it right the first time and that will go a long way to making the layout and the hobby more fun.

Adios, Wyt

[mmagliaro]

You have the luxury of a very big room (compared to what most of us have), so make it comfortable to build and maintain. In this early stage, I would focus on aisle width, benchwork depth, comfort, and accessibility, and set some absolute limits in those areas.  Then make the benchwork conform to those limits.

To me, this means maximum reach depth of 30", with 24" being a goal.  And aisle widths no narrower than 30".  It gets very awkward, especially walking down a long room like you have, with aisles narrower than that.

Can you post a floor plan showing where all the obstructions, doors, and windows are?  That really has a big impact on how wide the aisles can be, where the legs of a "U" or "E" can go, and so on.

[conrail98]

I have to go with Doug on this... E or G is the way to go.  I also would do multiple levels, for staging and longer runs with more towns/station stops.

I would do narrow shelfs, maybe between 18"-12" which would leave more aisle space. I like big aisles,, more room to move around.

I do know if that were my room,and if I had turn back loops,, I would offset them from the peninsula loop as to provide for space to walk between the blobs.

I just drew something up real quick,, 18" radius curves.


Adios, Wyt

This is what I was thinking. My shelves are 15" on the walls and 12" down the middle which gives me 36"-38" aisles on either side except for 30" at the turnback,

Phil

[rsn48]

Before you plan bench work shape, multiple decks, etc. you should decide how your layout is going to be run.  If you are having a many person ops session in the works, then you might want more switching opportunities.  But the more basic question which Mendheim raises is do you want to be looking for 6 operators every time, how long will your ops session be, he recommends shorter ones than many do, I prefer shorter myself, after 3 hours I'm ready to leave usually.

Or is this layout mostly going to be used solo or with just one friend?  I don't agree with everything Mendhiem says but I do agree that building for ops primarily reduces the amount the layout is used the fun:money ratio  goes up if you are working it on your own; thus hours of fun divided into time/money invested becomes a "better" ratio if you operate your layout on your own as well as with an ops group.  I have a good friend who only operates his layout roughly 10 times a year, nothing in between and many layouts out there are like that.

So planning a layout to be used extensively for larger ops sessions may and could be different than a layout planned mostly for yourself and one or two other individuals.

Secondly just finding a great looking plan and dropping it in (something most of us try and do, usually in the end with not much success) doesn't take into account basic questions as to:

1) Is your layout wanting lots of mainline run?

2) Are you going to go smaller but more complex switch, modelling a junction? (in this case one deck would suffice)

I suggest you use a system I was taught, oh those so many decades ago, as a young Canadian Armed Forces officer, junior officers through North America and the Common Wealth were raised on this system.  I'll give you a link and do a copy and paste of some of it here.  The system is called SMEAC:

"The SMEAC system is yet another acronym borrowed from our mighty Military [they do a pretty good job, so we may as well learn something from them!] and is short for:

S Situation

M Mission

E Execution

A Administration and Logistics

C Command and communications

The Military use the SMEAC system to document their orders and instructions for field operations, so that they can pass this information on to their troops.

While you probably don’t have a personal army at your disposal, there are times I’m sure when you need to give a colleague or even a family member or friend instructions or directions for a task or project – and this system."

]http://www.achieve-goal-setting-success.com/SMEAC-system.html]

[Back to me again]
The "situation" you want to take into account the variable above I mentioned, style of layout, number of operators, to be used mostly on your own, type of RRing, room configurations, etc.

From the above situation, develop a mission statement.  I worked for the Olympics and I was amazed at how useful the mission statement we managers were taught to use in the field, you'd be surprised at how much grief it saved us, won't bore you with why.  The mission statement was:  "To identify and stop prohibited items from entering the Olympic Venue while providing quality service."  Sounds simple but this mission statement guided me more than once while being a manager to 265 civilian security and screening types at the Curling Venue in Vancouver; especially in battles with other organizations at the Olympics.

Your mission statement should be short and sweet.  I'm not a fan of "given and druthers," imagine the mission statement of the Canadian Pacific Rail road if they worked like most planers using G&D.  They'd be saying things like, I want tunnels, bridges, maybe a helix in the Rockies, etc.  Instead their mission statement was most likely very simple, "To build a trans-contential RR linking East to West in a timely and financial viable fashion."  Everything is subsumed under this mission statement, it mostly main line running, with lots of opportunities for switching, its a Class One RR with everything that entails.

What you can then do after your mission statement is to design bench work that reflects what you want and rather than trying to pound a round whole layout into a square hole situation, you can take bits and pieces from  layouts you admire, some switching ideas from a favoured plan, a helix plan from another, ideas for mainline running from another.

This creates your own unique plan.  [By the way, I am certain you know all this, but it helps you focus on your plan, not some one else's]

[Dave Schneider]

rsn48,

Thanks for the very interesting and thought provoking post. It is a great example of thinking outside the traditional approach to the hobby.

Best wishes, Dave

[Rossford Yard]

Regarding Soo's post and the mention of a G shaped layout, John Armstrong's Realistic Track Planning book had a similar sized layout as an example at the end, and it was G shaped.  Worth a look as it was HO, so would be very roomy for N.

It features a stub end yard on the short side of the G, albeit with the main going around a curve, and with two sets of mains on the long stem of the G, does allow stacking of the turn back loops in what would be the lower right corner on Wyatt's scheme.   You might even get a 6-12" wide switching stub added to the plan across from the yard in N.

Not sure anyone has discussed where the doors are in this room, which would affect all plans.

[Flagler]

I have 2'10" pocket door located in one of the 20ft walls about 2  ft from the corner. The windows will be spanned that are along the other 20ft wall so they will not get in the way.

[soo]

Well here is two more ideas.





Just some quick ideas for the visual learners of the world.

Adios Wyatt

[Flagler]

This looks great,I plan on a Double Main line

Well here is two more ideas.





Just some quick ideas for the visual learners of the world.

Adios Wyatt

[JoeD]

What is the theme?  I noticed by your screen name "Flagler" that you might be considering the railroad your namesake designed?  If I were forced to do a railroad in Florida (shudder) I would love to do the Miami to Key West route...lots of long bridges, a few spurs on some of the keys on the way.  I did a small display when I worked for the Mouse for one of the resorts of a section of the line and it was fun to research.  You could pull all those need Cuba cars     Just a thought.

Joe