Atlas/Kato RSD 12

[Power Stroke]

I am not a Pennsy aficionado per se but growing up in the northeast I remember the Pennsy as a kid, seeing their trains when visiting relatives in Philly.
As a child virtually every HO trainset I got was a PRR, not by design or want, it's just what was popular(nevermind SF).
Anyways, I have a few different Pennsy motive power,(my GG1s being the favorite) and ocasionally buy what appeals to me. I just got an RSD 12 off ebay sort of because it was a Pennsy but mostly because I dig the way it looks.
I couldn't wait! Oh no! What a foul running piece of crap! Damn but it looks so good though.
Click the photo to see what I mean. It'll make your ears bleed!



And this was after lubing. I assume that everything I get from ebay requires cleaning and lube before running, so it is a matter of course. I also check wheel gauge, and found this one all over the board, so all wheels were adjusted to spec. Imagine my horror!
Alright, so lets take it apart and see. What a convoluted and complicated PITA this thing is. Spherical bearing blocks, universals, split trucks! No wonder hobby shops gave you a screwing as a kid, and no "Beardenizing" on this baby, no sir.
Anyways. I couldn't find anything wrong with this, so I put it back together and checked the results. Pretty much the same but I was able to isolate the noise to one truck, the front one, which moved to the rear when swapped.
Now don't ask me why but the worm drive axle has to be run tight, and when done, it's as quiet as a church mouse, and runs absolutely fantastic. All other wheels are set with my NMRA guage and are pretty much dead center in the notch.
The drive axle has the flanges at the top of the notches. Has anyone else run into this with Kato's split truck? And is there an answer why?
Eventually I get another video up but my AT&T DSL has seen fit to take an hour or more to upload video to Photobucket, sheesh!
Now that it runs as good as it looks, I'm glad to add another Penssy to the fleet!
Makes me wonder if the majority of what lands on ebay is stuff no one tries to tune up or repair? Hmmm.

Pic of the motor

[up1950s]

Playing the video with the sound turned fairly loud was hilarious . Do you have 2 tunnels ?

[brokemoto]

Over the years, most people have sung the praises of the Atlas/Katos.  I have always been less than impressed with all of them, save the SD-7/SD-9.  The latter are still among the best running N scale diseasels.  With the exception of the last two they are extremely finicky and prone to stalling on anything less than professional grade trackwork.  Even on that, they stall enough for it to be annoying.  Some people overcame the problems by hardwiring pairs together.

Still, I do not remember any of mine that were that noisy.

[johnh35]

Over the years, most people have sung the praises of the Atlas/Katos.  I have always been less than impressed with all of them, save the SD-7/SD-9.  The latter are still among the best running N scale diseasels.  With the exception of the last two they are extremely finicky and prone to stalling on anything less than professional grade trackwork.  Even on that, they stall enough for it to be annoying.  Some people overcame the problems by hardwiring pairs together.

Still, I do not remember any of mine that were that noisy.

Yes, the SD7/9's were excellent, but the GP30/35's that I have/had were not stall prone or finicky.

[Catt]

I find it rather funny now,but all of my A/K EMD's and GE's were actually awesome runners from the git-go. The Alcos on the other hand were just plain damn orenery runners.

[Power Stroke]

Playing the video with the sound turned fairly loud was hilarious . Do you have 2 tunnels ?

No. There is only one tunnel, and from point of view it is on the right. I have a modified Atlas GS&SV, with which I am continuously changing, primarily what was the yard at the front. The second time you hear this thing growl is on the LS back turn, there is a cliff formed by the upper deck, and it's against a wall, so the effect is like a tunnel or canyon.

[Power Stroke]

Over the years, most people have sung the praises of the Atlas/Katos.  I have always been less than impressed with all of them, save the SD-7/SD-9.  The latter are still among the best running N scale diseasels.  With the exception of the last two they are extremely finicky and prone to stalling on anything less than professional grade trackwork.  Even on that, they stall enough for it to be annoying.  Some people overcame the problems by hardwiring pairs together.

Still, I do not remember any of mine that were that noisy.

Well I kind of look at it this way. When I got back into model railroading in 2009, all I had was leftover Bachmann and AHM motive power from when I was a kid You know '70s and early '80s vintage toy set stuff. Since I live in CT, and my local road is/was Guilford, that is what I started looking for, and hey, finding Spookshow's website certainly did not hurt in avoiding true mediocity, as it was I already had that.
At any rate, since I was looking for a specific road my choices were pretty much limited to Chinese Atlas, and how can you go wrong, unless you take apart a Geep?
As time has gone on, I have searched out other roads related to the northeast, and I have got to say that the last two I got have been less than spectacular, and both being Atlas/Kato.
In all fairness, they are both over 20 years old but neither was ever run for long if at all. Hell, the Conrail GP30 wheel treads were still black, so it is understandable, based on what I have read to believe these would be rolling perfection but that is not the case.
Mind you, nothing that can not be fixed or tuned but yeah, I'm not so sure that these are/were the cat's a$$. Maybe next to an equivalent vintage Bachmann/Arnold/Mehano, etc but nowhere near as smooth or quiet as a modern N scale locomotive of pretty much any brand.
Be sure of this though, I will run the wheels off them!
Have fun!

[brokemoto]

I refrained from commenting on the GP-30 and GP-35 because I do not have them.  I do not run any prototype later than an RS-11, as a rule, and even the RS-11 is pushing it.  As Atlas issued those after it issued the SD-7/SD-9, I would expect that they would run well, but I do try to refrain from comments on what I do n ot have.

To be sure, the A/Ks were far better than your average B-mann, MP, AHM and the like.  The C-C Hudson, PA and E units were good, for their time, but even those power chassis were a Kato design.  I suspect that because the non-flywheel A/Ks were that much better than what had been o ut there (with the exception of the C-C Hudson, E and PA) they achieved a reputation that exceeded the reality. 

Funny, of all the non flywheel A/Ks, the RSD-4 gave me the fewest stalling or cogging problems, although the slow speed control was still  less than  ideal.  I was less than impressed with the RS-1, as well.  It was the first A/K with flywheels.  The slow speed control was still not that good and it did cog and stall at slow speeds.  It took the SD-7/SD-9 to get rid of those problems.

[u18b]

You young whippersnappers are funny.

That mechanism is an rs3 mechanism with an rs11 shell and RSD trucks.

In 1983 that mechanism was a hugely positive turning point in N scale.

So it may seem like crap by today's standards..... But trust me. You haven't seen crap until you have run a 1970s mehano loco.

[bbussey]

You young whippersnappers are funny.

That mechanism is an rs3 mechanism with an rs11 shell and RSD trucks.

In 1983 that mechanism was a hugely positive turning point in N scale.

So it may seem like crap by today's standards..... But trust me. You haven't seen crap until you have run a 1970s mehano loco.

A huge +1 on all these points.

The Atlas/Kato RS3 mechanism was revolutionary as well as visionary and still holds up well today.  All "state of the art" mechanisms today are built off of that RS3 foundation.  All other N scale motive power manufacturers eventually derived all of their models from that design.

[johnh35]

You young whippersnappers are funny.

That mechanism is an rs3 mechanism with an rs11 shell and RSD trucks.

In 1983 that mechanism was a hugely positive turning point in N scale.

So it may seem like crap by today's standards..... But trust me. You haven't seen crap until you have run a 1970s mehano loco.

Yes, Atlas borrowed parts from three different models to make that one

[u18b]

Well, back to the question at hand.

These locos should run fairly smooth and quiet. My RS3 does. 

So if it is as noisy as you say, something is wrong.

A common problem I have seen is that after 30 years the u joints crack.

[Power Stroke]

We'll, back to the question at hand.

These locos should run fairly smooth and quiet. My RS3 does. 

So if it is as noisy as you say, something is wrong.

A common problem I have seen is that after 30 years the u joints crack.

Ron.
Did you read the orinial post or listen to it go around the track?
The problem was in one of the trucks. The drive axle which engages the worm has to be run on the narrow side. I do not know why as there is no engagement issues with the gears in the truck, and there is no damage to the gears themselves. I thoroughly inspected everything using both my optivisor and 5" lighted magnifier. There is nothing I could see.
For some reason though, that axle needs to be adjusted so that the wheel flanges are just sitting at the top of the notches on the wheel gauge. All other wheels are set to spec.
It runs very well now, and it is quiet, I was only saying that It is nowhere near what a modern unit is like.
I knew what it was, as I frequent Mark's site at least a couple of times a week, and have so for the last 5 years. I'm just not so sure they deserve an A rating, especially when a lightly used, spotlessly clean, untouched unit sounded like that, and all wheels can not be run in gauge.
I pretty sure I know why it was on ebay.

[bbussey]

Sounds as if it was a defective unit, or that the drive gear was in backwards.  Replacing the drive axle or the entire truck also is an economical option.

The model deserves an "A" rating because of the reasons already provided up-thread.  I still have at least a half-dozen of the original 1983 mechanisms in the form of RS3s (as well as a handful of the RS1 derivatives) and after 30 years they still run fine.

[u18b]

Ron.
Did you read the orinial post or listen to it go around the track?
The problem was in one of the trucks. The drive axle which engages the worm has to be run on the narrow side. I do not know why as there is no engagement issues with the gears in the truck, and there is no damage to the gears themselves. I thoroughly inspected everything using both my optivisor and 5" lighted magnifier. There is nothing I could see.
For some reason though, that axle needs to be adjusted so that the wheel flanges are just sitting at the top of the notches on the wheel gauge. All other wheels are set to spec.
It runs very well now, and it is quiet, I was only saying that It is nowhere near what a modern unit is like.
I knew what it was, as I frequent Mark's site at least a couple of times a week, and have so for the last 5 years. I'm just not so sure they deserve an A rating, especially when a lightly used, spotlessly clean, untouched unit sounded like that, and all wheels can not be run in gauge.
I pretty sure I know why it was on ebay.

I sent you a PM.

And no, that is not normal.  Something is wrong- as Bryan said.   There is a reason it is an A rated loco- even if it is not up the very best we have today.