Author Topic: ABS and Styrene?  (Read 1405 times)

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bbeegle

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ABS and Styrene?
« on: March 20, 2014, 08:01:24 PM »
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Are these the same? Will they glue the same and be as strong?

Kisatchie

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2014, 08:09:25 PM »
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Are these the same? Will they glue the same and be as strong?

No, they are different types of plastics. I don't have any experience gluing the two together, so I can't help you there.


Hmm... I arc weld 'em...

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C855B

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2014, 08:31:53 PM »
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The search on TRW works well. Searching for "ABS" and "styrene" found this thread from last week: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=32370
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Chris333

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2014, 08:33:06 PM »
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bbeegle

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2014, 08:52:43 PM »
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Thanks,Brian

6axlepwr

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2014, 10:40:36 PM »
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ABS is a harder material. I believe darker plastic Kato shells are ABS. It is a real PITA to glue anythig to them with standard styrene liquid cement.
Brian

nkalanaga

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2014, 02:19:47 AM »
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Dee:  Whenever possible I join them mechanically - screws, pins, interlocking, whatever.  I never have had any luck with solvent cements on ABS. 

I don't know about arc welding, but heat would definitely be an option, if appearance isn't a factor.  MT recommends a soldering iron to fasten the lids to the boxes on 1025 couplers.  I've never used anything, just screw them to the car.
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DKS

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2014, 07:22:32 AM »
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MT recommends a soldering iron to fasten the lids to the boxes on 1025 couplers.

MT couplers and such are not made from ABS; they are acetyl. ABS is acrylonitrile butadiene styrene; various solvents will dissolve it, including acetone and MEK, although to a lesser degree than plain styrene. Acetyl plastic, or polyoxymethylene (which includes a range of brands such as Delrin), cannot be chemically welded. It can be bonded by first etching the surface with an acid, then applying an epoxy or specially-formulated cyanoacrylate.
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randgust

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2014, 08:20:15 AM »
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Is Plastruct sheet ABS?  It sure isn't styrene, it can be attacked with MEK, but not Testors, and it isn't in the Delrin family either.

DKS:  Interesting, because I've 'scraped' MT and other Delrin parts to get the shiny surface finish off and had better results with ACC, but attributed that purely due to the mechanical properties and a rougher surface to grip.

DKS

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2014, 08:46:33 AM »
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Is Plastruct sheet ABS?

I believe it is, which is why it frustrates a lot of modelers.
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peteski

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2014, 11:55:11 AM »
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Dee:  Whenever possible I join them mechanically - screws, pins, interlocking, whatever.  I never have had any luck with solvent cements on ABS. 

I don't know about arc welding, but heat would definitely be an option, if appearance isn't a factor.  MT recommends a soldering iron to fasten the lids to the boxes on 1025 couplers.  I've never used anything, just screw them to the car.

Looks like there is some confusion about the plastics we are talking about here.  ABS is not Delrin (the stuff couplers are made of).  DKS explained the difference quite well.

Stuff most older kits and loco shells were made of (many still are) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polystyrene
Stuff many new loco shells (and some plastic kits) are made of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acrylonitrile_butadiene_styrene
Tough slippery plastic used in MT couplers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyoxymethylene
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nkalanaga

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2014, 02:52:34 AM »
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David and Peteski:  Yes, I know MT couplers aren't ABS, but the idea of heat welding would work as well on ABS as on MT's Delrin.  We heat-weld plastics at our auto filter plant, and I have no idea WHAT they're made from.  Pure acetone won't touch the stuff, so I'm sure none of our model cements will. 

The parts my line uses are harder than ABS or Delrin, ring like metal of dropped on the concrete floor, and are vibration welded.  Basically, the two parts are rubbed together at about 220 Hz until the surfaces melt, while under a (literal) ton of pressure.  Other filters and assemblies use other plastics of various types, and the filters themselves are glued together, with some type of thermosetting glue.  It looks like chocolate pudding, and can sit for months without change.  We use it to glue the filter paper to the plastic end caps.  When heated to 350F it sets to "hard flexible" form, about as tough as a tire tread, and is almost impossible to get off the plastic.  It also glues steel and aluminum, so could be used for brass models, if it wasn't so thick.
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DKS

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2014, 07:13:25 AM »
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David and Peteski:  Yes, I know MT couplers aren't ABS, but the idea of heat welding would work as well on ABS as on MT's Delrin.

Sorry, the way your post was worded, it sounded as if there was some confusion. Anyway, if you use the correct solvent, you can chemically weld ABS. Heat welding creates cosmetic issues.

The parts my line uses are harder than ABS or Delrin, ring like metal of dropped on the concrete floor, and are vibration welded.  Basically, the two parts are rubbed together at about 220 Hz until the surfaces melt, while under a (literal) ton of pressure.

Ah, sonic welding. Back in high school, I briefly operated a sonic welder that assembled tape cassettes. Used to make a rather nasty squeal when the parts were being fused.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 07:17:36 AM by David K. Smith »
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craigolio1

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2014, 07:45:44 AM »
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Go to the Plastruct website. Under Tecnical and Cement Guide they list glues, or I guess solvents, that work for chemically bonding ABS to Styrene.  Plastruct Plastic Weld is listed.  I was also told that Tenax7r works and I hope it does because I'll be trying it in a couple of weeks.

Craig.

GaryHinshaw

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Re: ABS and Styrene?
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2014, 01:16:51 PM »
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Contains trichloroethylene; works with styrene & ABS.  The only trick using this to join the two is to not melt the styrene too much before the ABS starts to soften.