Installing Decoders in Atlas Engines (Semi-Rant)

[wmcbride]

Last night I installed three, new decoders (two NCE and one Digitrax) in two, new, smoothly running Atlas engines, a B23-7, a GP38, and a Dash 8-40B.

I was careful to make sure the motor leads had good contact with the decoders and each contact point between the decoders and the frames looked tight with no gaps. Yet all I got was the lights on and no one home in terms of motor control. Grrr!

I've been at this N stuff for over three decades and using DCC since about 2000. I know the old trick of adding a blob of solder to the decoder contacts to make good frame contact. I know the motor contacts need to be aligned and these were and were making good contact with the decoder. Yet it will require more fiddling to get these things to run.

My point is I wish Atlas used the European 6-pin decoder plug-in like Fox Valley does. It would sure make DCC installations simpler and more rewarding. I remember the old recommendation to add some foam under decoders in the Kato SD70Aces to make proper contact but I seem to have no problems in Kato installations.

I know a redesign of Atlas frames is not going to happen.

I guess I will just chalk these three installations, and the time I will now have to devote to get them working, to the charm of N scale. If it were easy, it would be HO.

[wm3798]

Like the B&O, Atlas was a pioneer, and others learned from their mistakes.  I've found the most effective way to do the "drop in" decoders is to go ahead and solder short lengths of wire directly from the motor leads to the boards.  It takes a few extra seconds, there's plenty of room for a little excess wire, and it gives you a secure installation and is pretty fail safe.  Personally, I wish they'd go back to the old heavy frames and just contract with TCS to build their 2-piece chips for them.

Lee

[OHCR 4218]

Is it just me or do the decoders seem like they take a lot more fiddling around with than they used to to get them to work. I don't know if the castings on the locomotive frames are rougher or if the decoders are being made from a different material but I too have had this issue a lot as of late. I have even had that problem with the 6 pin decoders.

[garethashenden]

I think plugs will become more and more common as new locomotives are introduced. Isn't the DC version of the S-2 supposed to have a six pin plug?

[davefoxx]

Is it just me or do the decoders seem like they take a lot more fiddling around with than they used to to get them to work. I don't know if the castings on the locomotive frames are rougher or if the decoders are being made from a different material but I too have had this issue a lot as of late. I have even had that problem with the 6 pin decoders.

It seems to me that the Digitrax boards are thinner, so, yes, I think they take more fiddling.  I apply a little flux and just touch the pad with a tinned soldering iron.  Thankfully, that seems to drop just the right amount of solder to fit into the frame halves snugly.  Oh, and Digitrax, while you're at it, feel free to move the motor contact pads, so that they actually line up with the motor contacts.   Yeah, I could do as Lee suggested, but I don't want to hardwire my decoders in my locomotives ('cause I'm lazy). 

DFF

[u18b]

No offence.

But if the lights are coming on then the problem MUST be the motor contacts- in spite of how sure you are that they are in the correct place.

It's a matter of trouble shooting.  If the lights light-- then the board is getting juice.

[sizemore]

Lights are on means someone is home. In the order of installation steps did you happen to address these before testing on address 03? If you did, I would recommend resetting the decoder first, then set CV29 to 36, then address. I had this issue with NCE boards in GP-9's and GP-35's. As for the Digitrax installation, I always have problems with the motor contacts popping out of the slots upon assembly.

HTH,
The S.

[wmcbride]

@Ron: I realize it's getting juice and the problem is in the motor contacts. They seem to be aligned but I know I wil have to fiddle to make sure it is a good clean connection.

@Sizemore: I am going to try a reset. I agree on the Digitrax boards. These seem to fit in nicely and to be making contact. Interestingly, the decoders I have had be DOA were about 2-3 brand new 6-pin Digitrax decoders. I returned them and Digitrax replaced them. 

It's all in the fun of N.

I remember sending Paul Graf an email many years ago when the first DRGW SD50s came out and thanking him for such a marvelous model WITH numbers in the number boards! 

[peteski]

My point is I wish Atlas used the European 6-pin decoder plug-in like Fox Valley does. It would sure make DCC installations simpler and more rewarding. I remember the old recommendation to add some foam under decoders in the Kato SD70Aces to make proper contact but I seem to have no problems in Kato installations.

This!

I can't understand why this is not a standard yet. Minitrix has been installing that 6-pin connectors since that late 80 or early 90s (in their Selectrix system, even before DCC was widely accepted).  Nowadays, majority of European models have that plug in them. Even very small locos.

[u18b]

Bill,

When I said it must be the motor contacts... I was responding to your pondering in the contacts at the frame.
If the lights are on, then they are clearly touching.

However, I will readily admit--- I feel your pain.  I too have had trouble getting those contacts in best position.  You are correct in that they are tricky.

For me, part of the problem is that since it is on the underside of the board, you can't see what is going on.

[johnh35]

Not sure where you are getting your boards, but the Digitrax boards I am using are slotted and will accept the motor wiper. I have had zero problems in this circumstance (except the occasional DOA). For the GP7/9/30/35, a new board was released to correct the old board that was too wide.

[soo]

Soldering iron+solder+contacts+decoder=run run run

Wyatt

[wmcbride]

You're right.

It may be time to solder. My iron is just tired from soldering some #12 turnouts.

[reinhardtjh]

I think plugs will become more and more common as new locomotives are introduced. Isn't the DC version of the S-2 supposed to have a six pin plug?

Late last year, I asked Matt Herman (GM of ESU USA) if he could make any comments on the board they are doing for the Atlas ALCo S2 and he replied:

Hi John,
Sorry, but I’m not at liberty quite yet to discuss too much about the new board. I can say that Atlas will be using a Custom decoder for the N Scale S2. We are not sure if we will be bringing this one out to the market yet. It has a Next 18plug that will clip onto a motherboard. If everyone had a next18 socket in their n scale locos this would be great, but only a few do, so this particular new board may not be of much use to end users…

WE ARE working with a number of OEMs that have interest in Sound in N scale. As more engines become available with this plug we will likely offer a more narrow new board. Then for the first time there could be a standard plug for N scale DCC. This Next18 plug will have all the needed connections between decoder and the loco. It would make DCC installation in N scale a breeze!

Unfortunately though, while we do have the ability to make a smaller decoder, the problem still lies in the fact that you still need a speaker for sound… This is the ultimate problem in N scale. Again we will be working with manufacturers to make sound in narrow hood N scale a reality in the future in new production, but when retrofitting, the speaker is still more trouble than the decoder….

We are listening for sure, but this won’t happen tomorrow. Stick with us a little longer. Great things are coming!

Best Regards,

Matthew  Herman
General Manager
ESU LLC

So it seems they are going with the Next18 connector "standard".  If you look at the European market lately there is a glut of new connector standards - Next18 (NEM662), Plux8/12/16/22 (NEM658), 21MTC, NEM651 (6-pin), NEM652 (8-pin).  The NEM651 is nice and small for N-Scale but the problem is it doesn't support sound nor any functions beyond 2 without soldering to the decoder board.  This is okay for the home DIYers but it won't fly in the current RTR world when people want sound, working ditch lights, beacons, marker lights, smoke (ugh), etc.

Makes me wonder if the new IM SD40-2 with ESU sound and non-sound DCC and also the Rapido GM-1 with ESU sound  will be a Next18 socket.

[Ike the BN Freak]

The issue with the 6 pin decoders is that they only have 2 functions.  For some it is fine, but for those that want more than just front and rear head light, going to need something with a few more functions.