Author Topic: jdcolombo you've inspired me!  (Read 3660 times)

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tony22

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jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« on: March 02, 2014, 07:49:56 PM »
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John, based on the great work you've done getting sound into N Scale engines I'm going to take a crack at it myself. I've been waiting for the day that I finally install decoders in my two H-16/44 Atlas diesels, and after I took a number of measurements I think I can go a bit farther and add sound. The only thing is I'll need those Star Micronics SCP-08B speakers to do it. Glad I got in on the group buy. Anyway, this should work if I take Brad Myers' approach in splitting the stock circuit board to get DCC installed. If I go that route it leaves a section I could cut out to insert the speaker. I have a pic showing the proposed cuts but I'm not sure how to upload photos on this site. The LokSound decoder would go above the circuit board at the long hood end (there enough height above that board to accommodate the LokSound), and the speaker would go into the cutout created after the center section of the CCB is removed.

Thoughts or guidance most welcome. I wanted to do this one first because it currently does not have DCC (I didn't want to rip out the other decoders I've put in), and I love the look of the engine and those red and green lights!

I'm so inspired I think I will order the two decoders. The H16 was a Fairbanks Morse. Do you have any idea which sound profile I should use for this engine?

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2014, 08:26:12 PM »
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Hmm, LokSound offers two different FM sound profiles. One labeled FM 2 Cycle 38D "C-Liner" and the other FM 12cyl-38D. Unfortunately the H16 was an 8 cylinder opposed so the second one wouldn't really work. I wonder if the C Liner can be programmed as an 8 cylinder variant. The C Liner was offered in an 8 cylinder version.

jdcolombo

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2014, 10:04:14 PM »
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Hi Tony.

I'm glad you are inspired!

Unfortunately, the F-M prime mover sound files are still on the "to be released" list for the ESU LokSound select; at least, that's the way I read their sound file list on their web site.   When it is released, it likely will have an 8-cylinder file; LokSound usually releases decoders like this with options for different engine variants - for example, their turbo EMD567 file can be set for either the 8, 12 or 16cyl versions.

However, what I'd do is go ahead and do the sound install now, instead of doing a regular DCC install.  ESU's motor control is superior to almost anything out there, and you could run them silent if you want until the F-M sound file is released (when it is, you can get your decoder reprogrammed by whomever you bought it from - you just put it on a programming track connected to a computer and the LokSound programmer, and hit a button and the new file is uploaded; if nothing else, I can do it for you).  You could also pick a "temporary" sound file to use until the F-M files become available (how about the Baldwin 606SC?  It's not an opposed-piston like the FM, but it's an 8-cylinder with a very distinctive sound)

There is a LokSound group on Yahoo Groups; you might want to join that group and post a question about when the FM sound files will be available.  The guy who runs ESU's US operations responds to questions like this pretty regularly.

As for the install itself, your plan looks like a winner to me as long as you have sufficient height for the speaker and an enclosure in the center section of the frame.

John C.


tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2014, 10:25:21 PM »
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As for the install itself, your plan looks like a winner to me as long as you have sufficient height for the speaker and an enclosure in the center section of the frame.

Thanks John, I've measured everything 5 times and I think there is enough height (once the frame is cut) to accommodate a total height of .190". So that means I should be able to make a sound box out of .020" x .188" Evergreen styrene and drop the speaker into it. I just need the speaker! :lol: Too be honest though I don't want to drill holes into the top of the shell for the sound. Think it will still work if I leave the shell solid?

Ah, I didn't check the actual download page. Too bad the FM sounds aren't available yet. Yes I think I should get them and pick an alternative for the time being.

jdcolombo

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2014, 11:20:32 PM »
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I haven't put holes in the shell in my most recent installs, like the RS-3.  It sounds just fine.

John C.

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2014, 07:43:52 AM »
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John, I wonder if a Knowles Fox would fit? I have a few of these. The frame is .375" wide; the Fox is .354" wide. Not sure yet if the length would be okay but that solution might require dropping the speaker in without a box. If a Fox would fit, would it not be as good as the SCP-08B if that one had a box and the Fox didn't?

jdcolombo

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2014, 08:59:07 AM »
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John, I wonder if a Knowles Fox would fit? I have a few of these. The frame is .375" wide; the Fox is .354" wide. Not sure yet if the length would be okay but that solution might require dropping the speaker in without a box. If a Fox would fit, would it not be as good as the SCP-08B if that one had a box and the Fox didn't?

I think you will find folks that disagree, but my views on this are pretty simple: a sealed box enclosure ALWAYS beats an install without a sealed box.  If you are in a huge hurry (I think John Reinhardt's order for the Star Micronics speaker should arrive in the next week or so if you can wait), you can buy the Zimo 8mm x 12mm "sugar cube" speaker, pull off the integral "sound chamber", and use the speaker itself for your installation (I believe this is essentially the same speaker as the Star Micronics).  The speaker would cost about $9 this way (as opposed to the $6 John R. will be getting them for), but it's an option.

Another option might be this:  The frame "channel" on the H16-44 looks pretty deep from photos I've seen of the frame.  The front part of the ESU decoder is quite thin - no more than a 1mm - it's the back section where the heavy-duty components are that is thicker.  So you might be able to cut away part of the front of the channel, and put in the decoder with it's rear end hanging out over where the front light board would be (you can then use an SMT LED to replace the front light).   This then would free the back "shelf" for a speaker, and it looks to me like there is plenty of room back there for a Fox.  Again, you'd need to replace the rear headlight with an SMT LED attached to the rear of the speaker box, like I did for my GP30 install.  You'd still use a small piece of the circuit board in the rear of the center channel for power pickup, and the rest of the center channel can be used to stash wires and resistors for the LED's.

You'll need to do some measurements, but this sure looks possible from photos I've seen of the H16 frame, unless the cab area of the shell interferes in some way.

John C.

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2014, 10:47:29 AM »
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Hmm, I hadn't considered using SMD LEDs. I didn't think they made common anode bicolor SMD types, but I just checked on Digikey and it turns out they do exist. I'll have to consider this. I wonder how bright it will need to be? They're rated anywhere from 5mcd and up.

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 07:55:43 AM »
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John, I went to both the QSI and Tsunami sites and listened to their Fairbanks Morse sound files. I then went to the LokSound site and listened to everything that had a sound sample available. To my ears the EMD 567 seemed to be the closest approximation to the FM . Not sure if anyone else wanted to give it a try and post their impressions.

jdcolombo

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 09:51:35 AM »
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John, I went to both the QSI and Tsunami sites and listened to their Fairbanks Morse sound files. I then went to the LokSound site and listened to everything that had a sound sample available. To my ears the EMD 567 seemed to be the closest approximation to the FM . Not sure if anyone else wanted to give it a try and post their impressions.

Which EMD file were you comparing?  THere are two - one with the turbo 567 (the 567D prime mover) and one that has the original Roots-blown 567 (the 567C)?

I'll have to listen over the weekend and see.

John

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2014, 10:26:44 AM »
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Hmm, at this link

http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/sounds/loksound-select/loksound-select-usa/

I looked through Page 1 and Page 2 and onlt saw one 567 - the *EMD 567 16cyl. Non Turbo*. That's the one Listened to. Is there another one somewhere?

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2014, 05:10:21 PM »
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John, hope you'll be able to get a listen to those samples - I just paid reinhardtjh for the SCP-08B speakers that came in and they'll be on their way to me hopefully by Monday! :D

Now that I'm home I can post the links to the QSI and Tsunami sound samples:

http://qsisolutions.com/products/techinfo/titan/q-titan-upgrade-codes-hoscale.html

http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami/tsunamisound.php

jdcolombo

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2014, 07:08:12 PM »
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Hi Tony.

I listened, and you're right - the FM sounds nothing like either a Baldwin or an ALCO.  The EMD 567 non-turbo file you listened to is closest, but the FM does't have the signature traction motor "whine" of the early GP-series locos.  Still, that's as close as you'll get from ESU until the FM files are released.

Go for it!

John C.

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2014, 07:48:40 PM »
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Woo-hoo! Thanks for the confirmation. Gotta start planning the H16-44 Atlas stock circuit board to LokSound Frankenstein surgery!

Gotta buy some styrene for the speaker box!

tony22

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Re: jdcolombo you've inspired me!
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2014, 04:41:27 PM »
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LokSound decoders ordered. Evergreen styrene and glue ready for the speaker box building. Just waiting for all the parts to show up! :lol: