Author Topic: Best Of Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels - with Index (Updated 3/12/2019)  (Read 11425 times)

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peteski

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2014, 09:20:20 PM »
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QSI lists a Titan micro on their website for N scale, but the release date is TBD.  Maybe some emails to them would help?

QSI recently changed hands - it might be beneficial if bunch of N scalers contacted them about that decoder. It has been vaporware since it was first introduced couple of years ago.  I am planning on contacting them soon.
--- Peteski de Snarkski
--- Honorary Resident Curmudgeon

jdcolombo

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2014, 09:25:06 PM »
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QSI recently changed hands - it might be beneficial if bunch of N scalers contacted them about that decoder. It has been vaporware since it was first introduced couple of years ago.  I am planning on contacting them soon.

I will, too.  The QSI decoder that Walthers used in the 2-8-8-2 was terrific.  I'd put that in my steamers in a heartbeat if an N scale version was available.

John C.

jdcolombo

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2014, 09:35:29 PM »
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By the way, since we opened up a technical discussion about voltages and so forth, I probably should note that you can't measure track voltage in a DCC system by using a DC multimeter across the rails.  DCC track power is AC, not DC and lower-priced multimeters won't accurately measure AC voltages like this.  You CAN use a DC multimeter to measure track voltage by connecting the meter from one rail to an internal ground on the booster, taking that voltage, then doing the same with the other rail, and adding the two together (at least, this will work with a Digitrax system, and an NCE PowerPro; not sure about others).

Many DCC systems have a way to adjust track voltage using an internal trim pot in the booster, and the manuals for these systems will have directions on how to do the adjustment and how to measure the resulting track voltage.   I have my track voltage on my Digitrax system set at 11.5v to the track; that's why I'm comfortable with using 16v caps.  But I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with a 16v cap if the track voltage were 14.25v, which I think is the NMRA standard (or recommendation, or something).  Peteski is absolutely correct about this: you don't want to be playing Russian Roulette with tantalum caps.

John C.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 09:37:56 PM by jdcolombo »

BCR 570

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2014, 09:45:31 PM »
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Thanks for posting all this John - at some point it would be nice to have all of your sound threads gathered in a place where we can find them as needed.  I have a supply of Knowles Fox speakers on hand, my capacitors arrived today, my Zimo speakers are en route from Litchfield Station, and my decoder for the NAR GP9 is en route from Tony's.  based on your advice, and if my first few installations go well, I will order additional Zimos for my four axle power.  My RS-3s, RS-10s and RS-18s all have etched radiator screens so sound egress will not be an issue.  The C-420, C-425s and M-630s have closed radiator shutters so I will have to see if there is enough leakage between body and deck to forego drilling any holes.

I have my DCC system set to 11.5 volts also, and I monitor it with a DCC Specialties RampMeter wired into the main track bus.

I was wondering about the soldering on board the locomotives ie. connections between motor, decoder, capacitor, speaker, etc.  Do you use something like a small 12v soldering iron?  My 35 watt iron for trackwork looks a little big for this application.


Tim
T. Horton
North Vancouver, B.C.
BCR Dawson Creek Subdivision in N Scale
www.bcrdawsonsub.ca

craigolio1

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2014, 10:08:21 PM »
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Rapido Trains is offering their GMD-1 with sound as we'll.  Loksound as we'll I understand. This is a very narrow loco, similar to the various SW series. Perhaps we WILL see a smaller decoder from Loksound soon?

Craig

M.C. Fujiwara

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2014, 10:18:29 PM »
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Thanks, John.
Been iffy about cutting into and sounding locos, but quality detailed posts like these give this e-tarded dude hope.
Thanks for all the time and effort to document your work!
M.C. Fujiwara
Silicon Valley Free-moN
http://sv-free-mon.org/

jdcolombo

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2014, 10:27:05 PM »
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Thanks for posting all this John - at some point it would be nice to have all of your sound threads gathered in a place where we can find them as needed.  I have a supply of Knowles Fox speakers on hand, my capacitors arrived today, my Zimo speakers are en route from Litchfield Station, and my decoder for the NAR GP9 is en route from Tony's.  based on your advice, and if my first few installations go well, I will order additional Zimos for my four axle power.  My RS-3s, RS-10s and RS-18s all have etched radiator screens so sound egress will not be an issue.  The C-420, C-425s and M-630s have closed radiator shutters so I will have to see if there is enough leakage between body and deck to forego drilling any holes.

I have my DCC system set to 11.5 volts also, and I monitor it with a DCC Specialties RampMeter wired into the main track bus.

I was wondering about the soldering on board the locomotives ie. connections between motor, decoder, capacitor, speaker, etc.  Do you use something like a small 12v soldering iron?  My 35 watt iron for trackwork looks a little big for this application.


Tim


Hi Tim.

I use a Weller 25-watt WP25 with the pencil tip for my electronics soldering.  I'd probably go with a somewhat lower-wattage iron for these applications if you're willing to invest in it.  The Weller WP series comes in 25, 30 and 35-watt versions; I have both the 25 and 35 - I use the bigger iron for making turnouts and soldering track joiners and feeders, again with the pencil tip, but I use the 25-watt for general electronics.  I'd probably be better off with a 15-watt, but I haven't found a 15-watt that I really liked, and I'm too cheap to buy a good variable temp iron.   So far I haven't blown anything up with the 25-watt, though.  But I'm fastidious about tinning wires and the like before actually soldering, and literally just touching the iron for a half-second to the two pieces together for final soldering after tinning.

As for gathering all my sound install threads, I'll leave that up to the moderators.  If they would like to gather them all up and put them in a folder on the DCC forum, that's fine with me.  I've been thinking about doing a simple web site with all this information in it, but I just haven't gotten around to investigating how hard/expensive that would be.  Plus I like making sure this information reaches the widest audience possible - you are the paradigm of what I'm trying to accomplish, getting someone who might not have thought about doing this interested in it and willing to try it.  This is the fun part for me - pushing the hobby out to the edge of what's possible a bit.

I will say that I'm probably done with sound installs for a while.  I've now converted about a third of my diesel fleet, and have enough units that I can run all my diesel operations with sound.  Eventually I'll probably convert a few more, but I REALLY need to get back to the scenery work on the layout!

John

bdennis

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2014, 10:31:41 PM »
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John,
If your going to create your own site can I suggest a blog from Blogger.com for example. It is free. So the only cost is your time.
A few of us here have blog sites for layout builds.. Just a suggestion.

Great work on the sound installs. Looking to do a RS3 and RS11 myself!
Brendan Dennis
N scale - Delaware & Hudson Champlain Division

VonRyan

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2014, 09:48:16 AM »
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John, if you're up for a challenge, I have the perfect diesel for you.
The Graham Farish Class-04.
I've sunk enough money into mine to where it'll never see DCC again. Just happy it's back to running on DC.
"Derry is the only word in the English language with 6 silent letters"

Cody W Fisher

Squadron Clerk, US Army Air Forces (Reenacted)

Member, Capital Wing - Airmans Preservation Society

Modeler of the PRR, PRSL, GWR, and SZD

jdcolombo

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2014, 11:16:11 AM »
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John, if you're up for a challenge, I have the perfect diesel for you.
The Graham Farish Class-04.
I've sunk enough money into mine to where it'll never see DCC again. Just happy it's back to running on DC.

Nah.  I already drew the line at the Atlas Shay . . . :)

John C.

drgw0579

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2014, 01:16:39 PM »
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John (or anyone else), have you seen the need to modify the volume?  On my conversions with the Knowles Fox and Donau for an ESU Loksound Select, I find the default setting for CV63, which is normally 180 is too high.  I get lots of distortion. I've been setting that CV to 100, which gives me about the same sound level, but no distortion.

I've also found that if you have a short between the frame and a speaker lead, you'll get an extreme amount of distortion!

Bill Kepner

jdcolombo

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2014, 02:15:15 PM »
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John (or anyone else), have you seen the need to modify the volume?  On my conversions with the Knowles Fox and Donau for an ESU Loksound Select, I find the default setting for CV63, which is normally 180 is too high.  I get lots of distortion. I've been setting that CV to 100, which gives me about the same sound level, but no distortion.

I've also found that if you have a short between the frame and a speaker lead, you'll get an extreme amount of distortion!

Bill Kepner

I reduce the value in CV63 to 120 (it comes from the factory at 180, which is maximum, so I'm reducing the volume to 2/3 of maximum).  I don't get distortion at full volume, however.  It's just too darn loud!  Most of my videos are done with the volume at maximum, to make sure the sound is picked up well by my video camera.  I turn the volume down for normal operation.

John C.

drgw0579

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2014, 04:46:21 PM »
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Come to think of it the first sound conversion (IM F7B)  I did didn't have the distortion and CV 63 is still set to 180, but the 2nd (KATO U30C) and 3rd (IM FP7) did have distortion.  These last two initially used the Knowles Donau, and initially I thought it was the difference from the bigger speaker.  But one of those I went back to the Fox and still had the distortion.

The Intermountain F Unit bodies must fit tighter than the Atlas hood units, because I've noticed a big difference  in sound level with the shell on and off.  One of my friends wants me to try an MRC decoder with a Fox and I am curious if I can make it sound better than the little round speaker on the circuit board aimed right into the metal frame (Aztec frame).

Until I have a coupler pin damage a speaker, my preferred speaker location is in the fuel tank, pointing down.

Bill Kepner

Smike

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2014, 11:13:13 PM »
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For keep alive caps, is this what would work if wanting to go with something that is 20volts ?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Sprague/597D227X9020R2T/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22Su78j96eQH4Y8sT2QT63OU%3d

Thanks!

jdcolombo

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Re: Updated Techniques for Sound in N-scale Diesels
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2014, 11:17:02 PM »
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For keep alive caps, is this what would work if wanting to go with something that is 20volts ?

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Sprague/597D227X9020R2T/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22Su78j96eQH4Y8sT2QT63OU%3d

Thanks!

Yes, I think those would be fine.

John C