Kato Heavy Mikado. Your thoughts please.

[brokemoto]

Going back to the P&E it seems they liked to run the GP7 units long end forward

The builders designed most of the so-called "first generation" road switchers to operate long hood forward (LHF).  Most roads in the East and South did, in fact, operate them in that way.   Many, but not all, of the Western roads operated them short hood forward (SHF).  The one exception was the BL-2, which could be operated LHF, but GM did design it to be operated SHF.  NYCS never had any BL-2s.  The purchaser could request control stands in either postition, or both.   SHF did become that standard, later, especially with the appearance in the late 1950s of the "chopped nose" road switchers.  Still, some roads, such as N&W did stay with LHF longer than others.  Some of those roads had high short hoods on what usually was a "chop nose" locomotive.  In fact, many roads later chopped the noses on their first generation road switchers.

If NYCS ever subsequently chopped the noses on any of their first generation road switchers, I never have seen a photograph of one.   This suggests that there were not many, if any.

Weighting the tender on the Kato mikado has improved the performance markedly, for me.  This goes double for the one that you have, from the first run of these things.  As others have commented, the driver pick up on these is not the best.  Thus, most of the electrical contact will come from the tender.




When dealing with N scale steam, it is STILL, despite the many improvements over the years, important to keep in mind Miranda's Maxim as explained by ke:  The poor performance of many N scale steam locomotives is almost always directly attributable to poor electrical contact.

When dealing with N scale steam, you can not have "too much" electrical contact.   With proper electrical contact, an N scale steam locomotive can be more reliable than an N scale diseasel.

[Bobster]

Good evening all,

Got the wires fixed to the transformer and wheels cleaned on the "engine" part of the locomotive.   It ran for probably 60 laps with the tender off.  Clockwise, counterclockwise, and some laps in reverse.  I carefully removed the 2 screws that hold the piece that holds the wheels on.  I removed the clamping piece then replaced the tender with draw bar (with 1.2 ounces extra weight) and then the trailing wheel.  I carefully put the holding piece back then the 2 screws in and set the whole thing down on the track.  It ran quite rough.  I had an occasional spark directly under the cab and a couple from the front tender wheels.  I have 11 inch radius curves on a 30 inch by 48 inch layout.  The engine and engine + tender went through the facing point and trailing point Atlas switches with no problems.

So any hints on how I screwed up?  I removed the tender but left the draw bar attached to the engine.  It doesn't run well now.  Runs about a foot then stops.  I shut power off as soon as it stops.  Do the wheels in the tender only go in one way?  Could I have the draw bar wires to the tender's front wheels routed wrong?  Glad its only DC! 

Help!
Bobster

[mmagliaro]

I can't follow your steps quite clearly.

When you said, " I removed the clamping piece then replaced the tender with draw bar (with 1.2 ounces extra weight) and then the trailing wheel. "

So, before you started all this, the tender was *not* connected to the engine?
And you took the cover plate off under the bottom of the engine, and then hooked the drawbar back on
under there, along with the trailing truck, and then put the cover plate back on?

So when it was running well, you were running it without the tender?

[RBrodzinsky]

I would check to make sure the metal wires on the draw bar are sitting around the mounting post under the cab. Also, make sure there is no vertical bend in the draw bar.

[Bobster]

Gentlemen,

MMagliaro,  Yes the trial run was without the tender attached.  It ran well.

RBrodzinsky, I cannot detect a vertical bend.  I took the bottom plate off so I could make sure one draw bar wire went to each side of the post on the bottom of the engine.

Thank you for your help,
Bobster

[RBrodzinsky]

One other thought -- make sure that there is no possibility of a short INSIDE the tender, with your custom weights. You might want to put a 0.02" shim of styrene under the bottom plate.  It is a long shot, but who knows, you might have some type of intermittent touching of the plates to the copper strips.

I guess the other question -- if you take the plates out of the tender, how does it run?

[mmagliaro]

Oh... and make sure that the two drawbar wires, where they come off the drawbar and go under the tender,
are correctly pressing on the insides of the two contact plates on the front tender truck, and aren't glancing into each other or the head of the truck screw or something like that.

[brokemoto]

Oh... and make sure that the two drawbar wires, where they come off the drawbar and go under the tender,
are correctly pressing on the insides of the two contact plates on the front tender truck, and aren't glancing into each other or the head of the truck screw or something like that.

...........or even on the bottom of the locomotive where the ashpan is supposed to be.  I have seen a few of these improperly reassembled with this result.  The stiff wires in the drawbar manage to contact the frame halves as the drawbar shifts and Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-Z-A-A-A-PPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!.


As you stated that you removed the retainer plate on the bottom, do make sure that your drivers are in quarter.  Check your rods and valve gear to make sure that everything there is according to Hoyle.

[Bobster]

Good evening,

There is happiness on the layout tonight.  I fell asleep on the couch after doing yard work so I didn't start until about 9:30 PM

What I did......
Checked draw bar attachment to engine. Looked good.
Re-attached the front truck to the draw bar and ran a loop.  Observed sparks from the tender's truck.
Turned the tender's front truck (not attached to the tender)180 degrees, ran loop, got spark
Turned the second axle of the front tender truck 180 degrees as it had sparked a couple times and was hot.
Added a .020 inch thick piece of sheet styrene under the 1.2 oz. weights in the tender and reassembled the tender.
Re-attached tender to its front truck which was already attached to the engine.

I ran about 4 or 5 times around the track at speeds ranging from fast to creeping and a couple times in reverse.  I did not get any spark under the ash pan like last night.  The wheels looked quartered properly.  As I understand quartering it is where the drive pins on the bar locate with the proper attachment location on the wheel.  I'll look again when I can see better in the morning.  My MRC 200 transformer was at about 45 to 50 when creeping.  I'll try the pulling test tomorrow to see if I need the rubber tired 4th axle.   Off to bed.

Very grateful for the help,
Bobster

[brokemoto]

It appears that the weights were making contact with the bronze strips on the tender floor.  There is a plastic piece that holds down the bronze contact strips to the floor of the tender.   I forget if possibly the ends of the strips are still exposed.   Never have I had this problem, but it is good to know that it is a possibility, in case either I or someone else experiences it.

[Bobster]

Brokemoto,

The thing that threw me off was that there was a already a very thin white plastic piece with 2 "U" shaped cutouts over the contact strips.  I thought I had insulation but didn't. There was no bronze visible inside the tender.  Maybe it was thin enough a spark could get through or jump a gap I could not see.

Bobster

[Bobster]

Greetings,

In conclusion.   

My Kato Heavy Mikado pulled 13 cars with just weight added to the tender.  This was primarily 40 foot freight cars, a gondola a, a 3 bay hopper, and a caboose.  The wheels slipped a little at start up and on one piece of 11 inch radius.   On another test it pulled 4 Rivarossi heavy weight passenger cars no problem.   As the freight train takes up about a third of the layout I will stop here for now.   Once the door layout is done I plan to try the engine again with one less weight in the coal car.   If I can gain a few more cars fine.   If not I'll order the new wheels with traction tires.

Thank you so much to those who added help and advice.  I would not have had the success I've had without you.
All for now,
Bobster

[peteski]

Sounds good Bobster!

But if you are planning on owning and running a steam loco or two, you have to promise not to ever again call the tender a "coal car"! 

[mmagliaro]

Glad to hear it, Bobster.  An important thing to keep in mind., is that if you  plan on having any grades on the new layout you are building, you are really going to need that traction tire driver.  The Mikado's pulling power drops off rapidly on a grade with out it.  The 13 cars it is pulling now will probably plummet to around 6 on a 2% grade.

Good luck.   I'm glad this all worked out.  In that Mikado, you've got yourself a rock-steady well-designed steam loco.

[Bobster]

Peteski,
I shall endeavor to do my best not to call the tender a coal car ever again.      Actually I do have two steamers.  I had forgotten when the local Hobby Lobby abandoned model railroading a few years back I picked up a Bachmann UP Prairie 2-6-2 pretty cheap.  I'll have to dig it out and see if it runs and what it will pull.   

Mmagliaro,
I intend to keep the grades on the door layout as flat as possible as it will be in a river valley.  My intent is to use a 2" pink foam base.  My plan is to put down the double track main with T pins into the foam, also for the layout to have the tracks a few degrees off parallel to the front edge with the left end closer to the front.  The bluff with a small waterfall on the creek will be on the rear left.  Think small sandstone waterfalls like the LaSalle-Peru and Starved Rock State Park area of central Illinois.  So depending on the time of year water will be optional.  The bluff, hills, cuts, and fills will be carved and / or stacked foam.  The creek may have a fill with a culvert or be a dry wash gully with a bridge.  Bluffs might be held together with wood skewers to start with.   Once the track plan is good I'll slide cork underneath the rails and liquid nail it down.  Smallest planned radius is 11 inches with some 19.  I have E units and 85 foot passenger cars to allow for.   I'll stop now as I'm turning this section into a layout thread.

So that's how I plan to keep things flat for all locomotives involved.  I will not hesitate to order the new fourth driving wheel with tires if I need it now that I know how to safely take the Mikado apart and put it back together.

Thanks again,
Bobster