Author Topic: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf  (Read 4267 times)

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Denver Road Doug

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Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« on: December 13, 2013, 06:23:28 PM »
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http://www.micro-trains.com/wc-SooEtAll_1312.php

Some interesting models.   My thoughts...
-I'm out on the SOO Christmas car, although it actually looks kinda like something I"ve seen in real life.   But it would have been rare to see that level of graffiti during my timeframe.   
-The NYC "Happy New Year" car doesn't even look like graffiti, and squarely belongs in some other segment of Micro-Trains' product line.  I hope this is not an indication of things to come.
-Regardless, I'm skeptical that an NYC car would have even made it to the era where the super-garish graffiti exists.   This has been fairly common for the recent MTL weathered releases....cars with roofwalks, etc making the cut.   I wish MTL would stick to more modern cars and schemes...
-...But not too modern.  ;)  I LOVE the weathering on the CP Rail car, but I have the sense that this scheme was maybe a "mid-nineties" or so paint job, and as such PROBABLY wouldn't look so weathered after 5-10 years.  Yes it would probably be very appropriate for a late 2000's or later layout.   Same with BNSF cars...only in the past five years or so would you see really extremely weathered cars as a rule.  (yes, definitely exceptions)   I guess my point is...an actual SOO covered hopper or old school CP Rail scheme would potentially have a wider audience.  Again, I think the weathering looks great on this car, and still may end up with it.
-The ACFX car is my fave, and I would love to get it...just the right amount of graffiti without overtaking the car...perfect for my late 90's/early 00's era.   (oh, but there's a side B...  :scared:  :) )
-Another observation about the CP Rail car...  I realize it's probably based on a proto-photo, but I think the "primer patch" trick is becoming a bit overdone.   My two cents.  Maybe I'm fearing side B is worse.   :trollface:

None of the above should be viewed as complaining...just constructive criticism/thinking aloud.   Now I just have to figure out how to procure these.  Not had much luck with the past few releases. (THAT part is a quasi-complaint...  :|  )
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 06:47:00 PM by Denver Road Doug »
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eja

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2013, 06:39:16 PM »
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The "GUFE" is spot on with the prototype!   Good job.

peteski

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2013, 06:43:54 PM »
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That is a bit much.  It is getting a bit too silly for my taste.  I also passed on the turkey graffiti.

In another related thread, Joe mentioned that he does the graffiti artwork. Somehow I just can't picture Joe from MT hopping freight cars during the night, armed with a duffle bag full of spray paint cans...  :)

Joe is a wonderful artist, but I still say that it would be neat if MT was to put an actual honest to goodness  tagger on the payroll (or commission them) to design graffiti for their weathered cars.  I've seen some real taggers doing and selling legal art.  I think that some of them would like to get paid for legally tagging some miniature railroad cars running on train layouts all over the world!  :D

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Denver Road Doug

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2013, 07:09:15 PM »
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Joe is a wonderful artist, but I still say that it would be neat if MT was to put an actual honest to goodness  tagger on the payroll (or commission them) to design graffiti for their weathered cars.  I've seen some real taggers doing and selling legal art.  I think that some of them would like to get paid for legally tagging some miniature railroad cars running on train layouts all over the world!  :D

That's cool if you don't mind paying $200-300 per car.   :facepalm:   I think overall Joe's portfolio holds up well.   I grant you a few but still, I think the quality has really gotten a ton better as time has passed.

Well, I just placed my order for the ACFX and CP cars.   Hopefully I'll be able to snag them.

Some quick research on the CP scheme had a few cars in that livery as early as 94, so it' conceivable that they weathered to that level by the latter part of my era in 2003-ish.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2013, 07:20:28 PM by Denver Road Doug »
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peteski

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2013, 09:10:10 PM »
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That's cool if you don't mind paying $200-300 per car.   :facepalm:   I think overall Joe's portfolio holds up well.   I grant you a few but still, I think the quality has really gotten a ton better as time has passed.

I agree that for most part, Joe's artwork is pretty good. But I still think that there are some real and talented taggers out there who might even tag the model cars for free (just to get the recognition). After all, they don't get paid for doing the illegal tagging of the real RR cars. And in both instances, they would have notoriety (just in different circles).  :lol:
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MTLJoe

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2013, 09:37:09 PM »
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You know, your posts are pretty good, for the most part, but they would be so much better if you hired a professional poster to make your points.  :D    BTW...I'm not a hack, I tag, have tagged and will tag going forward.  It's art for me...vandalism for some...but considering how much tax support these railroads get from us...they can provide a canvas from time to time. (me editorializing) The NYC car is a fantasy car like the turkey car, like the upcoming "congratulations on your first real date" car I'm sure everyone will be standing in line to buy.  They sell well...better than proto's as head scratching as it seems.  The last thing most taggers want is world wide recognition...unless your a narcissist like Banksy or John Feckner who are trying to be to spray paint, Andy Worhal was to soup cans.  Going forward I promise not to compare your posts to "real and talented" professional posters...promise :D.

Joe

I agree that for most part, Joe's artwork is pretty good. But I still think that there are some real and talented taggers out there who might even tag the model cars for free (just to get the recognition). After all, they don't get paid for doing the illegal tagging of the real RR cars. And in both instances, they would have notoriety (just in different circles).  :lol:

Denver Road Doug

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2013, 09:55:41 PM »
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 :o

Dang.

Now I kinda feel like Tom Cruise in "A Few Good Men"...except, I really *can't* handle the truth.   :)
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Smike

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2013, 10:04:10 PM »
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Zzzzzzzzzzzzing....  :D.


peteski

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2013, 11:07:46 PM »
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Wow Joe, I'm truly impressed!  Don't worry, I won't rat you out to the RR police.  :)

While I'm not a part of the tagger culture (or an expert on it), I'm puzzled by your statement that the taggers don't want their artwork to be recognized.  I'm not talking here about the gang-related tags.  I always thought that the taggers who create very elaborate artwork (like ICH) want their artwork to be recognized and photographed everywhere the tagged RR cars travel.  If not, why do they bother to create all that elaborate artwork?

Also don't worry - you are much better tagger and writer than I'll ever be.  I don't pretend to be really good at either graffiti artwork or English composition. :trollface:

I guess that contacting you to ask for a drop-in MT coupler adapter replacement for the poor-working Kato couplers would not be a good idea at this juncture....  :facepalm:

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MTLJoe

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2013, 11:50:41 AM »
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Hope everyone knows I was kidding.  Comments taken in that spirit too.  I should have been more specific, most folks who tag freight cars want their work seen, but don't want their faces attached to said artwork.  Iche is all over the place, but I don't know if we know who he or she really is.  Banksy and others have taken the art public and have left their vandalizing ways behind them for the most part.  I'm sure they hit the odd building here and there. 

No problem on the conversion...more than happy to help anyone.  Most of the Kato Engines take the 1015 just fine...but some needed a 2004-1 underslung coupler.  We attempted to offer a mid range, the 2003, but that was problematic.  Kato pilot openings seen to be smaller than they should be, cleaning out the corners with an Xacto makes pushing in the draft gear box easier.  If you have some specific question, let me know!  Now, where did I leave the can of Plum Spray Paint  :D

chicken45

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2013, 01:25:50 PM »
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Since "Killer" Joe is here, let me submit my unsolicited idea for next year's Halloween set. Do a legit Transylvania RR passenger set. Base it off Pennsy prototypes (Pennsylvania and Transylvania have the same number of letters). I'd love to see a crimson/blood red, or faded Pullman Green passenger cars with gold leaf lettering. Do up a K4 ( :trollface:) or some other steam engine, toss in a an observation car, diner, a maybe an RPO, and some other sleepers.
The key is to give it subtle Halloween creepiness as if there were a railroad.
I don't know how well that would sell, or how it fits in to MTL's business model, but I'd love to see something like that.
Josh Surkosky

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Ed Kapucinski
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He asks excitedly "Did you say Ménage à Trois?"
No, I said "Ed's Law."

peteski

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2013, 10:25:22 PM »
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Hope everyone knows I was kidding.  Comments taken in that spirit too.  I should have been more specific, most folks who tag freight cars want their work seen, but don't want their faces attached to said artwork.  Iche is all over the place, but I don't know if we know who he or she really is.  Banksy and others have taken the art public and have left their vandalizing ways behind them for the most part.  I'm sure they hit the odd building here and there. 

No problem on the conversion...more than happy to help anyone.  Most of the Kato Engines take the 1015 just fine...but some needed a 2004-1 underslung coupler.  We attempted to offer a mid range, the 2003, but that was problematic.  Kato pilot openings seen to be smaller than they should be, cleaning out the corners with an Xacto makes pushing in the draft gear box easier.  If you have some specific question, let me know!  Now, where did I leave the can of Plum Spray Paint  :D

Joe, your post did have me do a double-take for a second or two. But then I suspected (and hoped) that it was tongue-in-cheek.  It is now all perfectly clear.

Speaking of clearing things up, my previous post could have been composed a bit better.   It was not my intention to call you (or whoever else does the MT artwork) a bad artist.  Actually the MT graffiti artwork and the weathering are excellent!  I own many of MT weathered and tagged models. I just don't agree (and roll my eyes) at some of the choices for the graffiti.  But I vote with my wallet - I simply don't purchase some of the cutesy or off-the-wall decorated cars.

I just thought it would be neat to have some of the MT graffiti done by some off-the-street tagger.  But I see that this is not very realistic.  BTW, you did a great job on that new GUFE car!

As far as the Kato - MT coupler conversion, I'm looking for something different.  I would like to see MT tool a new coupler conversion, which would just drop into the standard Kato coupler boxes.  A totally new coupler.

I meet Eric Smith every year at the Amherst shows, and we usually chat for a while. For for several years I lobbied him to look into feasibility of making that conversion. One year, I even gave him a Kato passenger truck to give it to the designers at MT to see if they would evaluate the feasibility of designing a replacement coupler for those unreliable Kato couplers.  He returned thhat truck to me during the next show, but he didn't think that MT would be interested in tooling that coupler conversion.

My lobbying effort stopped couple of years ago.  But I figured that things always change in model railroad hobbies, and maybe I can revisit lobbying for this coupler conversion (just approach it through someone else - you).  After all, there are others besides me who are dissatisfied with the Kato couplers.  And since Kato uses pretty much the same coupler design in all of their models, the conversion would fit all the Kato models. But I'm specifically thinking about retrofitting all my Kato passenger cars, since that is where the coupler performance is the poorest. Considering how many Kato passenger car models are out there (think of all the multi-car sets Kato sells), I think that this coupler conversion would sell quite well.  Also, since the MT conversion would only need to be just the coupler-and-shank, and possibly a spring (not a complete coupler box), the conversion should be rather inexpensive.  That would be even more of an incentive for modelers to buy and use the conversion.

But this is all OT for this thread - I should start another thread or contact you directly.
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Rossford Yard

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2013, 11:44:33 AM »
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Joe,

If some of those guys had gone public, I would think having the artist inspired cars might actually make a good selling collector car.

Doug,

As you know, the MT weathered cars are about all I buy these days, with my collection standing at 700+ cars, and in need of nothing more unless new body style or more weathering for my circa 2005 urban layout.  I ordered these, save the CP/Soo weathered grain car.  Only ordered the runner pack last month, and it would have made a nice addition to that little fleet at my grain elevators.  Alas, sold out at my usual vendors.  We can ask Joe, but actually it appears our Canadian friends tend to buy out anything aimed at them in a hurry, based on my experience.  I would have thought they would have been watching hockey, and let the order slide a few days......

MichaelWinicki

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2013, 01:50:47 PM »
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Joe,

If some of those guys had gone public, I would think having the artist inspired cars might actually make a good selling collector car.

I would think the same.

MT would be creating (even more) perceived value.  More perceived value=Higher selling price.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 04:48:15 PM by MichaelWinicki »

peteski

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Re: Dec MTL Weathered/Graf
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2013, 02:07:28 PM »
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Joe,

If some of those guys had gone public, I would think having the artist inspired cars might actually make a good selling collector car.


That is exactly what I was thinking. Maybe MT could approach those individuals and ask them if they would be interested in this kind of work, and what would their commission be.  It would sort of be like going back to their roots, except in miniature (and legally).  :)

They could then even have special limited runs, with the artist signing and numbering the box inserts.  All the silly stuff collectors love!  :facepalm:  They do this with the custom-decaled cars for the N scale conventions. Why not do it with real honest-to-goodness tagged cars? 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 02:10:26 PM by peteski »
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