JD4020, how much interest is there?

[nkalanaga]

Then, if the prototype axles were that easy to change, would the steering mechanism be simple enough that all the model would need is two axle lengths?  If so, it could be as easy as including a length of wire and the measurements so the modeler could cut it to suit.

[wcfn100]

Jason,

In Idaho, almost every farmer that had a narrow front or single front wheel for their John Deere row crop tractors from the 1960s also had the wide front axle to replace it when the tractor was being used for something other than cultivating.  In other words, I doubt that you will find any production numbers because the front axles were interchangeable.  If you look at what is available today, single front axle and roller front axles are extremely rare on the 4010s and 4020s.

Carter

That can be regional and crop dependent.   

But I should back up here.  The narrow front end is not the 'V' front end.   The regular two wheel front axle could go down to 48".

I've been studying the photos I have of loaded flat cars in Waterloo and it's starting to look like that the rear wheels were pushed in on their axles for shipment.  That would be something to consider for any production as it makes a big difference in loading.

I know a guy who worked at Deere's (as he calls it), I'll give him a call and see what answers I can get if any.


Jason

[sirenwerks]

Coming late to the conversation (been in Cleveland)...  I'd take two car fulls for my IMRC brown TTX flats.  I'd especially be interested in the full cab version, if they would have shipped with cab installed.  Although, a mix of cabbed and uncabbed would be likely.  I need to fnd some late-60s reference photos of these being shipped.

Although I'm not interested in the mower attachment, I'd definitely (!!!) be interested in suitable implements to go with them.  Maybe a hay rake, hay mower, disc roller, tillage plow, and a manure spreader.  I know Marks Metallclassic (sp?) makes some, but getting them in the states is difficult and costly.  I'd love to see a 60s era combine (too that's not included with a DPM kit).

[cfritschle]

Bryan,

Cabs on the Deere 10 and 20 series tractors from the 1960s were generally after market and dealer installed.  The factory installed Sound Guard cabs did not show up until late 1972 on the 30 series tractors.   

Jason,

The John Deere adjustable front axles did indeed have a wide range of adjustment that made them very adaptable to various crops.  My brother-in-law modified one of his front axles to go as narrow as 44 inches wide for cultivating sugar beets on 22 inch rows.  Ideally if James makes the model, it would have a long (wide) front axle that could be cut to length.  The rear axles are no problem in that you can use music wire to adjust them to what ever length you want.  Here is an example of the Athearn JD with an adjustable rear axle.  http://nscalevehicles.org/tips_n_tricks/athearn_jd_tractors.php

Carter

[wcfn100]

I've been going over some of the stuff I had and I mixed up a bunch of stuff.  The 'v' front is the narrow front, which does make it not as common.  I also went back to see that there were a few design differences though the years.  One big one being the fenders (and some headlights on those fenders).  Another a change in the muffler.  I had also forgot about weights in the front.

I'm calling my friend in Waterloo tommorow.  I imagine he's forgot more about these than we'll ever be able to learn.  As for the rear axles, I guess I just never noticed before that some axles are just longer.  I've gotten too use to the models which always have flush ends. 

My tractor game needs a refresh for sure.

Hopefully I can talk my friend into sharing two pictures he showed me.  The first was a flat bed trailer with tractors which was then loaded on a flat car.   It just looked like it wanted to tip over.  The second was a bi-level autorack loaded with tractors.  I imagine I'd be laughed out of the prototype club if I modeled that unless I carried the picture around with me.

Jason

[cfritschle]

I've been going over some of the stuff I had and I mixed up a bunch of stuff.  The 'v' front is the narrow front, which does make it not as common.  I also went back to see that there were a few design differences though the years.  One big one being the fenders (and some headlights on those fenders).  Another a change in the muffler.  I had also forgot about weights in the front.

I'm calling my friend in Waterloo tommorow.  I imagine he's forgot more about these than we'll ever be able to learn.  As for the rear axles, I guess I just never noticed before that some axles are just longer.  I've gotten too use to the models which always have flush ends. 

My tractor game needs a refresh for sure.

Hopefully I can talk my friend into sharing two pictures he showed me.  The first was a flat bed trailer with tractors which was then loaded on a flat car.   It just looked like it wanted to tip over.  The second was a bi-level autorack loaded with tractors.  I imagine I'd be laughed out of the prototype club if I modeled that unless I carried the picture around with me.

Jason

Jason,

The 'v' front was called the Roll-O-Matic, and those were extremely rare on tractors shipped to Idaho in the 1960s.  I have seen older John Deere tractors around here with the Roll-O-Matic front pedestal, but the single front wheel is preferred for the tricycle configuration for the purpose of cultivating crops.

If Jimmo were to make the model with a front axle the modeler attached, all three options could be made from the adjustable wide front axle.  All one would need to do is cut out the part he didn't want.   

Carter

Edit:  Found some good photos of a Roll-O-Matic front pedestal.  http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=11217&weiid=8736345&lang=En

[wcfn100]

Okay so I think I got stuff together, but any corrections are welcome.

The 4020 came in three models, Standard, Crop Row and High Crop. 

We can throw the High Crop out, it's not what anyone wants.  The Standard is basically just a fixed width front axle which wouldn't be discernible from an adjustable axle in N scale.

So that means a Crop Row would probably be the best to go with.  Crop Rows can have either a narrow ('v') front end or a wide (adjustable) front end.  For the 4020, the wide front is probably better, but the narrow front wasn't unheard of.  If anyone were to make a corn picker, they would need the narrow front as to not knock over the stalks.  And as we've talked about here, the narrow front could be very regional based on crops so some people may prefer it, but I don't have any info on that.

So with the Crop Row, wide front tractor, there's a couple production changes that can be looked at.   The early tractors had small fenders and round mufflers, while later ones had a wider fender with headlights ('66)  and an oval muffler ('68).  While the muffler probably isn't a big deal, the fenders do change the look of the tractor.

The rear axles on the Crop Row should extend beyond the wheels as they were adjustable and most likely shipped with the wheels in the in-most position.  A couple options that could be done separately are a cab (or canopy) and front weights( a lot of the pictures I have of loaded tractors show the front weights in place) . 

That's about all I can do.  Good luck with the project.  Let us know if we should start saving our money. Like I said before, I could use 40 or more (depending on what's done or can be modified easily).

Jason

[peteski]

It would be nice but....I'm beginning to think that you guys are scaring jimmo out of starting this project (too many variations).   

[Kisatchie]

...I'm beginning to think that you guys are scaring jimmo out of starting this project (too many variations). 

Yeah! All I want is a basic tractor for flatcar loads.


Hmm... basic black...?

[kalbert]

Yeah! All I want is a basic tractor for flatcar loads.


Hmm... basic black...?

+1 Just make some in a popular configuration. The rivet counters can research and kitbash all they want on their own time. The rest of us just want some green tractors that resemble a 4020.

[sirenwerks]

Wouldn't a detailed model work just as well as a load than the blob you're requesting?  If so, then both parties win.

[kalbert]

I'm not requesting a blob. I'm suggesting a 4020 in whatever configuration Jimmo would care to make them.

Is RTR the name of the game and every conceivable option needs to be made available? Would every possible wheel configuration need to be paired with every possible cab configuration? I guess we've already demanded pre-applied road specific details on locomotives, region specific details on farm equipment is a logical next step.

Considering the lack of anything in this arena, wouldn't a 4020 of any style axle to start with be sufficient and anyone with the desire to do so can modify it to their own level for their specific need?

[sirenwerks]

"A green tractor that resembles a 4020" sounded as if you were watering the offering down to a lesser state.

[wcfn100]

Is RTR the name of the game and every conceivable option needs to be made available? Would every possible wheel configuration need to be paired with every possible cab configuration?
...
Considering the lack of anything in this arena, wouldn't a 4020 of any style axle to start with be sufficient and anyone with the desire to do so can modify it to their own level for their specific need?

I though I laid that all out on a platter.

Basic body  - Row Crop w/ wide front axle.

Basic configurations - narrow/wide fender, round/oval muffler.

Possible After market details - etched cab or canopy, front weights and a 'v' (narrow) front.

If that's too much information for a project like this, then it's probably not something I'd be interested in buying in the first place.

And I've never said or even suggested that every configuration has to be done.  People continually just read what they want to.  I'm just trying to give the best information I can so we can get the best product possible.


Jason

[jimmo]

I'm not running away just yet. The whole point of me asking the question here was I knew I would get some really good feedback from all of you knowledgeable farmer and farm-savvy types. So far it's been very educational. Keep it up.