Author Topic: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?  (Read 3453 times)

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eagle5473

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Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« on: November 16, 2013, 07:52:00 PM »
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Looking for ideas on using a b and c truck arrangement in an engine for either a FL9 or Cliner.  I think years ago on the Atlas page someone mentioned that some of the C trucks gearing matched that of a B truck , trying to see if anyone has tried this yet

Aaron

pwnj

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2013, 11:00:50 PM »
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Funny you should mention this, but I was actually just in the process of checking out my LifeLike SD9 to see if a LL GP18 truck would fit on it.  If so, the SD9 truck centers are pretty close to spot-on for an FL9 (well, they're exactly 3 feet shorter, but that's less than 1/4 inch in N-scale, not something I'm gonna split hairs about).  Anyway, that's where I'm at so far.  Will report back with my findings.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 12:18:24 AM by pwnj »

u18b

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2013, 12:13:40 AM »
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I assume you mean the 5-axle versions, since the Life Like 4 axle version is absolutely awesome.
I made one years ago.

Bryan Bussey owns it now.

I took an SD7/9.
I think I shortened it to get the truck centers correct.

And I cut off one of the wheels from the front truck to make it a two axle truck.
I glued new sideframes to it.

The wheelbase of the front truck was a little short, but it was close enough for me.

Ran GREAT.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 12:15:23 AM by u18b »
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Alwyn Cutmore

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2013, 12:38:10 AM »
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For the C liner I was going to use a ConCor PA mech with the chassis shortened. If you get one of the old Atlas C Liners you will find that the front truck axle centers are  the same as the front two axles in PA truck. Cut the rear axle off and attach the Atlas side frames.  By shortening the chassis and milling it to shape you will finish up with a chassis that will give you the weight needed and reasonable running quality.
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JanesCustomTrain

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2013, 02:30:18 AM »
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aren't the PA trucks too big for a C liner ?

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dougnelson

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2013, 05:45:29 AM »
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What about the trucks from the old Atlas 5-axle C-Liner?

OldEastRR

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2013, 06:34:10 AM »
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Quote
I took an SD7/9.
I think I shortened it to get the truck centers correct.

Bingo! I'm using an Atlas/Kato SD7 as the mechanism to fit under the old Atlas-Rivarossi C-Liner shell. I had to cut down and round off the front end of the frame to get it to fit into the rounded nose of the shell, and I'm going to live with the two-foot or so over-length between truck centers because I don't want to go through the hassle of slicing and splicing up the metal frame, shortening geardrives, etc.
But you'll have to use 6-axle mechanism simply because a two axle truck gear tower is shorter than a 3 axle one, if you are thinking of just plugging in a 4 wheel truck. Even if you don't want to power it the geometry of trying to get it to fit right is pretty tricky.
Best to use a 6 axle mechanism and chop off an end axle from one truck. Carefully inspect the truck before you do, tho, because one axle can be removed with just its idler gear, whereas if you take off the wrong axle you have to leave the big idler gear sticking out forward, because to remove it means there's no drive power transferred to the remaining axles.
Yes, the PA trucks  are too long for the C-Liner. However the axle spacing for the SD9 trucks is exactly the same as the 3 axle FM truck. If you carefully remove the outer axle frame from both   the SD 7 truck and the Atlas C-liner, with  some filing you'll be able to fit the C-liner 3 axle frame over the SD 7 truck core. The only complication is the Atlas/Kato truck frame is made to slip down onto the the top of the truck, and the C-liner frame must be slid up from the bottom (or vice versa, I forget which). But a short piece of brass wire painted black keeps the truck frame secure to the truck core. But really nice to have correct truck frames and axle spacing AND a working 6 wheel drive.
For the front truck I filed off the truck frame features of the cut-down SD7 truck, cut the frame of the front C-liner truck off, and will try to superglue or expoxy the thinned C-liner frames to the SD core. The axles will not quite match the new truck frame, but again, something I'll live with to get a C-liner with 5 powered axles so it can pull something more than just itself. I have a dummy C-liner I plan to run with it to haul Shoreliner consists (which I have to kitbash).
I was looking at how to do an FL-9 this way, which should be easier as far as matching trucks frames, but you'd also have to kitbash some F shells to get the correct side configurations and length of the loco.

eagle5473

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 07:38:27 AM »
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https://www.shapeways.com/model/1476612/1-160-emd-fl-9-locomotive.html?li=search-results&materialId=6

This FL9 peaked my interest, I have one on order, but I think I choose the wrong material.  Will see how it is when it gets here.  Will look into the SD9 mech to see how that goes.


pwnj

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2013, 10:58:12 PM »
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OK, got to test the LifeLike SD9 chassis. Unfortunately, the early version uses a different gear and mounting than the GP, so they won't play nice.  Next step is to see if I can get my hands on an Atlas SD7/9 chassis (http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/katosd7mech.jpg) and try the GP30/35 truck (http://www.spookshow.net/loco/files/katogp3035mech.jpg) on the front.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2013, 11:39:42 PM by pwnj »

OldEastRR

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2013, 07:24:18 PM »
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Let us know if that front truck swap works.

Jim Costello

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2013, 08:43:21 PM »
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I would love to have both units in the NH schemes and have pondered over this from time to time.  The side frame for the front bogie of the FL9 can be made by cutting out the centre axle detail of the SD7/9 bogie side frame and joining the two together to fit the 'F' bogie. The 6 wheel bogie was only a A-1-A  wheel arrangement whereas I think all SD units have all wheels powered which is a good thing.

For the FM 'C' liner the front bogie of the L/L 'C' liner has the correct profile for the side frames and is to scale. The Atlas front bogie is too small and their unit is/was powered that way while the rear bogie was unpowered.  The Concor PA bogie is also too
short if you want something closer to scale. The L/L  PA,DL109 etc bogies are the correct length.I will have to check to see if the Erie Build chassis will take the PA bogie. It would need to be shortened as it is 3' too long.

Some thoughts

eagle5473

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #11 on: November 19, 2013, 06:30:13 PM »
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Well after playing with all sorts of 2 and 3 axel trucks from my stash last night I could not find 1 that would swap to another chassis.  I did come to the thought of using a Con Cor PA mech with the 3 axel in the rear and cutting down the front, the front will be a little short, but I have not yet found a solution.  the PA is the right length at 60 ft.  I did get the FL9 shell from shapeways, I ordered the non FUD version, and its not worth using, but shows that the FUD version should look much better based on the EF4 that I already have from them.    Any one else have better luck with swapping trucks?

Aaron

eagle5473

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2013, 09:34:09 PM »
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Scratch the PA Idea its way too long for the FL9 shell, the U25B mech seems about right, but I doubt we can get a 3 axel truck in it

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2013, 09:45:59 PM »
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The old brass SD50s by Sam used a truck similar to early Kato B trucks (F/GP/U25/RS3) and actually swapped out easily.
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pwnj

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Re: Any ideas for FL9 or C liner running gear?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2013, 09:41:03 PM »
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OK, thanks to a quick test by a friend with an Atlas SD7 and an Alco RS unit (same truck as the GP30/35), not only does the truck fit the SD7 chassis, but it runs without modification. YES!!!  8)