Please help with weights for my passenger cars

[trainforfun]

I've made connectors for MUing locos (before flywheels) from 0.015 brass rod and 1/32 brass tube, bought from Special Shapes.  Not fancy, but you solder one wire to the rod, the other to the tube, kink the rod a little so it stays in, and plug them together.  Using very fine, flexible, stranded wire, a pair of them would fit in the loco pilots, one on each side of the coupler, and didn't look bad.

I also used a pair between two passenger cars, to put a battery in one for a light circuit in the other, and that combination took 18 inch radius curves with no trouble.  I had body mounted couplers, in two Con-Cor smoothside cars, and put the connectors under the floor, flanking the couplers.  Each car had a socket on one side and a wire on the other, so if I'd done an entire train, they could have been reordered if I wished. 

For couplers on the pusher, how about an old Unimate body-mount on the end that couples to the train?  You've already said that they'll stay coupled, so manual uncoupling would be acceptable, and the Unimate mounted with a screw through the shank.  Using the hole closest to the coupler provides a very short mount.  Where you'd find one today I have no idea, but someone here may have a spare.

The last time I saw these couplers they were marked "Red Caboose" on the package .

BTW I have an older version of the RS11 with traction tires , I will redo the test in my helix with KATO passengers cars to see how much better it is .

[trainforfun]

Hard to believe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just did the test :
> Old Atlas/Kato RS11 with 2 traction tires , one on each truck .
It went up the hill !!! 5 turns of the helix with 10 KATO passenger cars + 4 MT 50' box car
I did not know the weight of your "power car" that you intend to run in your passenger train so I figured 4 MT 50' car would be safe !!!

It's about 1.99% slope on 36" diameter . ( 18" radius )

[robert3985]

Hard to believe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just did the test :
> Old Atlas/Kato RS11 with 2 traction tires , one on each truck .
It went up the hill !!! 5 turns of the helix with 10 KATO passenger cars + 4 MT 50' box car
I did not know the weight of your "power car" that you intend to run in your passenger train so I figured 4 MT 50' car would be safe !!!

It's about 1.99% slope on 36" diameter . ( 18" radius )

Hate to say "I told you so..." (not really  ) but traction tires make a huge difference.

Looks like the prob is solved!

[peteski]

Yes, well-placed (design-wise), and clean traction tires dramatically improve the pulling performance.  The motors in our models are powerful enough to make the wheels slip (even with traction tires installed).

[mmagliaro]

Hard to believe !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just did the test :
> Old Atlas/Kato RS11 with 2 traction tires , one on each truck .
It went up the hill !!! 5 turns of the helix with 10 KATO passenger cars + 4 MT 50' box car
I did not know the weight of your "power car" that you intend to run in your passenger train so I figured 4 MT 50' car would be safe !!!

It's about 1.99% slope on 36" diameter . ( 18" radius )

Good news, and not hard to believe at all.  That's the reason traction tires are on almost every steam loco.
The tractive effort is a function of weight and friction on the rails.  Rubber makes that friction factor
go WAY up.

Congratulations.  So I guess you have your solution!

[trainforfun]

Only problem with this old design RS11 is the power pick up , 2 wheels per side on each truck .

I bought it in Hampton , NH ( near Hampton Beach ) around 1988 ( !!! ) not far from a camping ground named Shel-Al if I remembered correctly , Ian could you tell me if it's still exist , the camping ground and the hobby shop ?

I installed DCC in it so a bit of the frames was cut to install a DZ125 decoder in it .

I don't use it very often and at first it was a bit stiff . After 10 minutes of reverse / forward it has improved a lot . Sadly it will never be on par with the more modern RS11 .
These were made by Kato for Atlas at the time .

[nkalanaga]

These and the matching RS3s were one of the reasons I designed my simple MU plugs.  I'd wired my MiniTrix Fs together years before, but they stayed together.  With these I wanted body mounted couplers, filled pilots, and the ability to change consists. 

[peteski]

Only problem with this old design RS11 is the power pick up , 2 wheels per side on each truck .

I bought it in Hampton , NH ( near Hampton Beach ) around 1988 ( !!! ) not far from a camping ground named Shel-Al if I remembered correctly , Ian could you tell me if it's still exist , the camping ground and the hobby shop ?

I installed DCC in it so a bit of the frames was cut to install a DZ125 decoder in it .

I don't use it very often and at first it was a bit stiff . After 10 minutes of reverse / forward it has improved a lot . Sadly it will never be on par with the more modern RS11 .
These were made by Kato for Atlas at the time .

The shop is most likely Neal's N-gauging Trains. It was a great shop (including the cat roaming the store, along with little "gifts" he sometimes left on the shelves).  Neal Carnaby (proprietor), moved the store couple of times before selling the remaining stock to another person and moving back to his home state.  Neal is still active vendor but just doesn't have a brick&mortar shop.  He usually shows up at the larger shows and conventions.

No clue about the campground - I usually stay in a cottage on Hampton Beach.

The electric pickup on these early Kato models was quite crude by today's standard. No positive (springy) contact between the chassis and the trucks or between the trucks and the wheels.  The white metal of the truck frames and chassis also can oxidize easily.  But back when these were made, their design was quite revolutionary (compared to other contemporary N scale locos).

The power pickup is actually from all the wheels in a truck (the springy contact is not really the main contact). The axles contacting their metal truck frame bearings do most of the electrical conductivity.

TCS makes special decoders for these locos where the 2-piece decoder replace the light boards on each end.

[mmagliaro]

Only problem with this old design RS11 is the power pick up , 2 wheels per side on each truck .

I bought it in Hampton , NH ( near Hampton Beach ) around 1988 ( !!! ) not far from a camping ground named Shel-Al if I remembered correctly , Ian could you tell me if it's still exist , the camping ground and the hobby shop ?

I installed DCC in it so a bit of the frames was cut to install a DZ125 decoder in it .

I don't use it very often and at first it was a bit stiff . After 10 minutes of reverse / forward it has improved a lot . Sadly it will never be on par with the more modern RS11 .
These were made by Kato for Atlas at the time .

Yes, I am familiar with all these woes, as my RS-11 is that older type, which is why I removed the traction tire wheels
on mine and replaced them with non-grooved wheels donated from another RS-11.   I have never had issues with oxidation
between the top of the truck frames and the bottom of the split frame, but it is commonly reported, so I'm sure it
happens.   Also, I put Kato GP50 trucks in mine, with the RS-11 sideframes snapped back around them, which reduces
the speed (the old RS-11 release was a slotcar).  It turns out that the motor gear will mesh fine with the GP50 truck,
but the internal gearing is different, so it runs a little slower, but you have to cut some slots in the bottom of the
RS-11 sideframe/cover to clear the gears.   I also put a different motor in it to further slow it down.

So yeah, they had their problems.

Can you retrofit just one pair of traction tire wheels onto one axle of your new RS-11?  That would get
you grippy wheels, and the good running of the newer model.   Whether the pickup issue would still plague you,
I can't say, but it's probably better than the old one.

[peteski]

Can you retrofit just one pair of traction tire wheels onto one axle of your new RS-11?  That would get
you grippy wheels, and the good running of the newer model.   Whether the pickup issue would still plague you,
I can't say, but it's probably better than the old one.

IIRC, the original trucks only had 1 traction tire wheel per truck (and 3 plain metal wheels). The traction tire was on the side opposite of the springy brass wheel wipers.  So, 3 wheels per truck were capable of fully picking up current.

[trainforfun]

The shop is most likely Neal's N-gauging Trains. It was a great shop (including the cat roaming the store, along with little "gifts" he sometimes left on the shelves).  Neal Carnaby (proprietor), moved the store couple of times before selling the remaining stock to another person and moving back to his home state.  Neal is still active vendor but just doesn't have a brick&mortar shop.  He usually shows up at the larger shows and conventions.

No clue about the campground - I usually stay in a cottage on Hampton Beach.

The electric pickup on these early Kato models was quite crude by today's standard. No positive (springy) contact between the chassis and the trucks or between the trucks and the wheels.  The white metal of the truck frames and chassis also can oxidize easily.  But back when these were made, their design was quite revolutionary (compared to other contemporary N scale locos).

The power pickup is actually from all the wheels in a truck (the springy contact is not really the main contact). The axles contacting their metal truck frame bearings do most of the electrical conductivity.

TCS makes special decoders for these locos where the 2-piece decoder replace the light boards on each end.

Thanks for the info on the MR Shop , yes I remember now : Neal's . I checked on Googles and saw the camping ground , so it was there the last time they took a picture !!!

[mmagliaro]

IIRC, the original trucks only had 1 traction tire wheel per truck (and 3 plain metal wheels). The traction tire was on the side opposite of the springy brass wheel wipers.  So, 3 wheels per truck were capable of fully picking up current.

Yep, that's exactly how it was.  And, well, this is my opinion, but it was a lousy design.  Having a TT on one side of an axle
is a recipe for uneven traction and bad centering.   And on mine, the truck was never quite "right" - it had  3 corners with
metal wheels and one with the traction tire.  It always felt to me like it was trying to rock corner-to-corner (like
a table with one leg a little shorter or longer than the other 3).   It wasn't pronounced, but I could feel it when
I played with the truck on the rails.   This just exacerbated the pickup problems
because one of the metal wheels was always not in good contact with the rails.

I think it would be better to put two TT wheels onto one axle and just try it like that. 

You could even try just one tire on one wheel.  It's uneven, but it probably would be enough to nudge the engine up the hill.

[nkalanaga]

I never tried moving the traction tires, but did notice that those wheels weren't always the same diameter as the all-metal ones.  In  my case two units worked fine, but Max's idea sounds like a good one. 

[craigolio1]

I've made connectors for MUing locos (before flywheels) from 0.015 brass rod and 1/32 brass tube, bought from Special Shapes.  Not fancy, but you solder one wire to the rod, the other to the tube, kink the rod a little so it stays in, and plug them together.  Using very fine, flexible, stranded wire, a pair of them would fit in the loco pilots, one on each side of the coupler, and didn't look bad.

I also used a pair between two passenger cars, to put a battery in one for a light circuit in the other, and that combination took 18 inch radius curves with no trouble.  I had body mounted couplers, in two Con-Cor smoothside cars, and put the connectors under the floor, flanking the couplers.  Each car had a socket on one side and a wire on the other, so if I'd done an entire train, they could have been reordered if I wished. 

For couplers on the pusher, how about an old Unimate body-mount on the end that couples to the train?  You've already said that they'll stay coupled, so manual uncoupling would be acceptable, and the Unimate mounted with a screw through the shank.  Using the hole closest to the coupler provides a very short mount.  Where you'd find one today I have no idea, but someone here may have a spare.

I've had the flanges turned down to run on C40.   Edit, sorry, replied to the wrong person there.

[craigolio1]

I've made connectors for MUing locos (before flywheels) from 0.015 brass rod and 1/32 brass tube, bought from Special Shapes.  Not fancy, but you solder one wire to the rod, the other to the tube, kink the rod a little so it stays in, and plug them together.  Using very fine, flexible, stranded wire, a pair of them would fit in the loco pilots, one on each side of the coupler, and didn't look bad.

I also used a pair between two passenger cars, to put a battery in one for a light circuit in the other, and that combination took 18 inch radius curves with no trouble.  I had body mounted couplers, in two Con-Cor smoothside cars, and put the connectors under the floor, flanking the couplers.  Each car had a socket on one side and a wire on the other, so if I'd done an entire train, they could have been reordered if I wished. 

For couplers on the pusher, how about an old Unimate body-mount on the end that couples to the train?  You've already said that they'll stay coupled, so manual uncoupling would be acceptable, and the Unimate mounted with a screw through the shank.  Using the hole closest to the coupler provides a very short mount.  Where you'd find one today I have no idea, but someone here may have a spare.

Great idea.  I could do the same with a Z scale coupler from Bowser.