Modeling N-Scale Tank Cars

[Denver Road Doug]

I'm curious what resources (online or otherwise) anyone knows of regarding kitbashing/scratchbuilding "modern" tank cars in n-scale.
-Basic Drawings
-Detailed/Plan Drawings
-Photos/Video
-Proto Articles
-Modeling Articles (even HO, especially if similar donor models are available in N)
-Forums/Discussion Groups

It seems consensus that model tank cars are a tough sell, especially modern (70's or later) cars that are essentially black with minimal lettering.   A few white and even fewer blue and yellow examples, and the rare small/medium logo...but for the most part a spartan black car is the overwhelming majority.   (and we're told plain-jane doesn't sell, although I'm not convinced that's really 100% true)   Athearn and Atlas have bucked the trend and produced some good-to-great stuff...Traincat had advertised an Argon car at one point but I think that's no longer in the works.  I'm hopeful we'll see more...but there's so much still on the drawing board. (I daresay even in HO)  Anyway, the same reason they are "boring and don't sell" is the same reason they are easier to decorate ourselves without too many major headaches.   So, it would stand to reason that scratchbuilding or kitbashing the dozens/hundreds of tank cars that aren't available in n-scale would be a worthwhile endeavour. 

I have limited knowledge of freight cars...kind of an MFCL junkie (Yahoo group about freight cars) but I still only know a very microscopic amount compared to most on that list.   So "flunkie" may be more appropriate.     But, I have thousands of tank car photos personally--with varied types likely in the hundreds--and it's that variety that draws my interest.    It seems like components of the various commercial models could be cobbled together to create at least *some* other cars without major surgery.  In other cases, it seems to be a matter of differing diameters of the tubes (if straight) and of course length. (no jokes please  ) So, many more options if you really want to get your hands dirty.  If you've ever taken an Atlas tank car apart it's pretty fascinating how they go together so replicating that type of assembly would be cool, or of course there's old school wire or new school etched metal at our disposal.   Not sure about other technologies like 3D printed FUD for use with the shapes we're talking about, but that would be part of the discussion I guess.  N-Scale Nevada at least advertised tank car scratchbuilding kits in one of the very early n-scale mags, but I'm not sure if they ever came to fruition.  But between fabrication and simply repurposing existing "tubes" with different railing, hardware, etc. I would think there's at very least good starting points available.   

A good example of what I'm trying to convey is I saw a pretty odd looking tank car a few years ago that looked like someone took a z-scale "long funnel" car and put it on n-scale trucks.   I was thinking they had something like it in Z so it might be a good starting point for a project.  (haven't confirmed that, just using it as a possible example.  I'll try to dig up a photo)  Now, often something won't size out quite like you thought and then the discussion is are we gonna spend that kind of time on a "closer foobie", and is that philosophically better/same as the dozens of foobie paint schemes on MDC/Athearn tanks.   So I guess I'm trying to shoot for a pretty high level of accuracy, if I had the choice and/or time.

Anyway, what say you?   

[Denver Road Doug]

For the record, I don't have some super-specific agenda here....just thought I would generate some discussion.   I was trying to build sulfur train with "close foobies" but it seems that they weren't as close as I'd hoped so that was part of my motivation.   And, I happened to be perusing the Atlas parts page (as a result of another topic here!    )  and it just came back to mind so I decided to start the topic.

[Scottl]

I'm definitely interested in what others know here.  Like you, I would love some sulphur tank cars.

[Kisatchie]

I need tank cars that were around in the late 60s. Atlas makes their 17,360 gallon tank, the 20,700 gal tank, and the 23,500 gal tank, but that's not enough. Micro-Trains, are you listening?


Hmm... when Kiz talks,
everyone falls aslee....zzzzz...

[BCR 570]

I need some 1970s era dual compartment tank cars - nothing currently available in N Scale so will have to resort to kitbashing or scratchbuilding.  I have obtained some Atlas and MDC tankcars in kit form for this purpose.

Tim

[bbussey]

The best resource is the manufacturer's catalog.  For example, GATX was very helpful to ESM back in the 1990s when we were offering limited-run painted models on other manufacturers' plastic.  I would visit our GATX contacts in Chicago annually while in Rosemont for the MRIA show.  I have a 1980s GATX tank car customer catalog that has line drawings of every model manufactured at that time.  I have similar data from TTX (still Trailer Train back then).  I have full mechanical drawings of the PD3000 that I got from GE for potential new tooling before Trainworx announced.  And I also have the 1917 and 1974 (nee 1886) blueprints for New Haven station and New London station respectively.  Check with the manufacturers/architects and explain what you're looking for, and most of them will be willing to supply enough necessary data for scratchbuilding/kitbashing various models at little or no cost to you.

[Rossford Yard]

Will pull the Colonel Klink routine here...."I know nothink!" (actually, think it was Shultz...)

I for one am buying nothing but plain black tankers or plain grey covered hoppers to make my fleet more suitably bland.  I do understand its hard to resist the purty colors, and have way too many of them in my previous purchases.  Actually bought the MT weathered and graffiti tank cars.  The graffiti is what gives color these days!

And, as DRD knows, I pretty conscientiously count hoppers, tankers, etc. vs. plain old box cars in the modern car fleet.  While it varies, certainly any post 2000 modeler needs to have more of the former, and less of the latter....so they should sell pretty well, presuming N scalers keep their layouts up to date.  That said, I do recall the Kato rep at some national train show telling me that ATSF diesels outsell BNSF ones by a ton.  Perhaps, that indicates that we hold our modeling dates to pre last rounds of mergers.  When was the BNSF merger again? 

In the end, I bet we all keep our fleets "in era" by guess and by golly more than detailed research.  The latter is more accurate, but also causes (me at least) more headaches.  My only math is, if I keep buying my share of tankers from Atlas and Athearn, they will keep making more road numbers in all schemes, drab and colorful.

[ljudice]

Doug,

I think we're way better off than 10-15 years ago - and in recent years we've gotten the Athearn LPG cars which are also great.

But it seems as if - except for Atlas and Athearn - there has been no more progress....   

I've always thought that some of the EXOTIC cars would be ideal for MTL to pursue - ie.  let them do a bunch of foobie schemes as long as they do the 1-2 real ones. 


- Lou

[Rossford Yard]

Lou,

Somewhat agree.  Love the LPG and Atlas has the 20K and the corn syrup. 

What seems to be missing are some fatter, slope to the middle tankers of the larger variety.  Somehow, those MT and Atlas tank cars just don't capture the massiveness of the modern tank car as well as they should.  Maybe its just not a model we see on the rails that often.

[GaryHinshaw]

DRD, I'm not really sure what you're looking for here.  Do you really propose to scratch build a fleet of generic tankers and only lack the info, or are you just hankering for companies to pony up more variety? 

I for one have no interest in the former, but great interest in the latter, and the more generic the better.  (This coming from someone who has purchased dozens of generic tankers, covered hoppers, and gons, and will continue to purchase more.)

Remember that the old Con-Cor funnel flows make pretty good fodder for upgrades, given the GMM detail sets.  And wouldn't it be nice if Walthers would offer their sulpher tanker in N?

-gfh

[sirenwerks]

Doug,

Over the years I have collected articles on "modern" tank cars, most being built in the 60s or 70s but of non-center sill design and most in service into at least the 80s.  Most are Mainline Modeler articles, some RMC and Rail Model Journal, plus two N Scale detailing articles..  They're a mix of proto and modeling and, yes, a number are HO modeling.  PM me your email address and I will provide you access to a folder of them temporarily stored on my Google Drive; you can download them if you'd like.

[basementcalling]

Remember that the old Con-Cor funnel flows make pretty good fodder for upgrades, given the GMM detail sets.  And wouldn't it be nice if Walthers would offer their sulpher tanker in N?

-gfh

Don't hold your breath waiting on that one. Hold it after they make them.

Stinky.

[ljudice]

Forgetting the ConCor cars, I don't think there is a modern model of a true Funnel Flow type car out there today, and some of the more modern tankers have this feature even more exaggerated than older cars...

[Rossford Yard]

Funnel flow.  That was the term I was looking for. Yeah, we need more of those.  I would buy those in skads.

[Denver Road Doug]

Over the years I have collected articles on "modern" tank cars, most being built in the 60s or 70s but of non-center sill design and most in service into at least the 80s.  Most are Mainline Modeler articles, some RMC and Rail Model Journal, plus two N Scale detailing articles..  They're a mix of proto and modeling and, yes, a number are HO modeling.  PM me your email address and I will provide you access to a folder of them temporarily stored on my Google Drive; you can download them if you'd like.

Sirenwerks, thanks, just sent you a PM.

DRD, I'm not really sure what you're looking for here.  Do you really propose to scratch build a fleet of generic tankers and only lack the info, or are you just hankering for companies to pony up more variety? 

I for one have no interest in the former, but great interest in the latter, and the more generic the better.  (This coming from someone who has purchased dozens of generic tankers, covered hoppers, and gons, and will continue to purchase more.)

Remember that the old Con-Cor funnel flows make pretty good fodder for upgrades, given the GMM detail sets.  And wouldn't it be nice if Walthers would offer their sulpher tanker in N?

Gary,

I guess overall I'm really just trying to gather info on coming up with more tank cars, by whatever means necessary.   I'm not sure if by "generic" you mean plain or you mean non-proto-specific, but it is NOT my intention to just create random tank cars with no real prototype.   Now, it COULD mean fudging *a little* depending on the situation...so for example if a tank diameter of a car is 10ft and there's a model with a 10'4" diameter and otherwise correct features then yes that one might make the grade.   Anyway, in my mind, here are the possible "means".
1. New releases of existing "good" tooling by Athearn and Atlas.   This is happening, and it a good thing.  But, you can only have so many, and I am approaching critical mass on these with a few exceptions.   I think they've done a good job of doing a few "foobish" schemes to help fill in the gaps and I have pulled the trigger on a couple of those as well.   I suppose we could include the Micro-Trains 56ft tank in this category too.
2. New releases of "legacy" tooling.  So, the old MDC 50ft tank and the three Con-Cor funnels (40ft, 46ft, 56ft I believe) are really the only ones that come to mind.  (the shorty MDC and Atlas tanks I suppose, although I really haven't found many real-world examples of these)
3. New Announced Tooling.  This is obviously the best case scenario, but it just seems to be a slow boat travelling on a container travelling on a slower boat from China.  Another issue is lately the tendency has been post-2005 "spreadsheet" cars...out of my era.
4. "Shrunk" New Tooling.  So this would be existing HO stuff we want in n-scale like the Walthers sulfur car, Intermountain Corn Syrup Car, etc.   Also any tank cars that Athearn or Atlas has that haven't made it to N. (not sure if anything Atlas has qualifies since I believe all of their cars are ported to N)
5. "Repurposing" Existing Tooling - This is taking an existing car and updating to etched details, decorating in an appropriate scheme, and nice wheelsets/trucks/couplers.  Everything except actually doing major surgery on the body itself.  So, if there WAS a prototype or perhaps an acceptable foobie-level for any of the legacy tooled cars, trying to build a car to represent that while attaining some semblance of the finish and detail of newer (90's+) tooled cars.  I've seen some nice conversions of the MDC car--with reference to an actual real car that looks very close--as an example.  This could be a newer car as well with a scheme not done and updating just the wheels....let's be honest we're talking BLMA here.      One somewhat off-the-beaten-path example comes to mind as well...the Tomix Japanese cars...see http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=70563 .  Another way-out-there one is my previous example of using a large Z funnel car to make a small N-scale prototype.
6. Kitbashing.  This would take repurposing and add chopping and grafting pieces to make a legit or very closely legit car.  This is the point where I'm not sure what can be done.   I would think that there are varying lengths of just about every tank car in n-scale, but I don't know.   And obviously with a funnel design it gets tricky to attempt to shorten/lengthen those.
7. Scratchbuilding.  "Starting with a tube", possibly using existing commercially available etched details or plastic railings and loading/unloading details.   Again, not sure...."don't know what I don't know".

I think 1-4 are pretty out of our hands.  About the only thing is to "vote early, vote often" using e-mail, phone, shows, and Facebook to voice our opinions about what we want.   5-7 are basically what I want to explore...are there any easy/obvious repurposing projects out there?   Can I chop "Brand X" tank car to produce another prototype?   Can scratchbuilding yield good results for modern tank cars?