Is 1/2 inch telephone line too small?

[rochsub]

Absolutely "zero" complaints from me. The scene looks amazingly realistic. I think your power lines have exactly the right effect - just enough to fill in that subconscious awareness of "what's right" but not so much as to attract too much attention. Very well done.

BTW, the only thing in this otherwise spectacularly convincing scene that gives it away (other than the glimpse of the fascia at the edge) is that long wobbly gray structure in the back. Is that one of your future subjects for refinement?

That aside, this a some exceptionally fine scale modeling.

That building started out great, but then I made the mistake of using thinned Floquil paint for weathering. Over time, it warped it like crazy.  It will be replaced eventually.

Daryl

[C855B]

...Now I need to put another pole in between all the existing poles.

Glad to help. Adding more poles = adding clutter = more realistic scenes. As that shot of Proviso attests, real life isn't nearly as neat as most MRRs portray on their layouts.

Now if you want to talk overhead wire clutter, our kid is currently studying in India. He took several pictures for me of the ad hoc (to be kind) power hookups there. Holy cow! (pun intended)

[sirenwerks]

Even the prototype lines disappear into the scenery when photographed from above at a downward angle.  They would stand up more if your photos were ground up, no?

[wazzou]

Even the prototype lines disappear into the scenery when photographed from above at a downward angle.  They would stand up more if your photos were ground up, no?

This...consider the distance and elevation of the photos.

[OldEastRR]

Doesn't all that wire get in the way of cleaning, derailments, switch-throwing, re-railing, uncoupling, etc? Not to mention less than attentive guest engineers.

[rochsub]

Doesn't all that wire get in the way of cleaning, derailments, switch-throwing, re-railing, uncoupling, etc? Not to mention less than attentive guest engineers.

Yes.  But the lines are made of an elastic material that will stretch when accidentally hit so as not to come unattached or disrupt the poles. 

Daryl

[robert3985]

Yes.  But the lines are made of an elastic material that will stretch when accidentally hit so as not to come unattached or disrupt the poles. 

Daryl

I can attest to the fact that EZ Line really works to minimize damage due to inattentive operators/owners/track cleaners.  Its flexibility REALLY is a great feature.  I wouldn't consider using monofilament line, or wire (which I've done in the past) because it always gets damaged or a pole gets ripped out.  EZ Line fixes all of that, so it's okay alongside your trackage.

[pnolan48]

Doesn't pole spacing vary considerably? I've got 180 feet here in Ohio, and had 330 feet in Albuquerque (two 165 foot lots). My boyhood home has 110 feet (110 foot lots). And the spacing varies along a single run.

[VonRyan]

It does vary somewhat, but usually within a one foot tolerance of the local standard.
I've a mind to measure the spacing of what I can find of what is left of some old PRSL telegraph poles for future reference. (Let's just say a certain section of the old Salem branch has a soft spot in my hear)

For modern lines, at least what is outside my house, I'd say the thickness is actually 1", but I'm not about to climb a ladder and find out one way or the other.
Bare copper telegraph line however, is maybe 3/16th of an inch. I have an old insulator with a a perfectly patinaed example of how the wire was made fast to the insulator.


-Cody F.

[robert3985]

This is my reference for trackside telegraph poles on the U.P. in the early to mid 50's.  Tells you both the "Number" (dia.) and type as well as what it's for.

Pole Line Diagram:


Here's a photo of what is alongside the U.P. mainline today in the Upper Weber Canyon on the Wasatch Grade between Ogden Utah and Wahsatch Utah.  As you can plainly see, the wires are not anywhere near 1" in diameter.  The insulators at their widest point on the bottom are 3 5/8" in dia.

Prototype Telegraph Pole Crossarms and Wires:


According to the diagram, the power carrying wires are No. 6 (the thickest) and that diameter according to an AWG chart is only .1620", and the thinnest wire is No. 10, which is .1019" in diameter.

So, according to the Berkshire Junction website, they offer two sizes of EZ Line, in .010" and .020"....not .003" and .006"....unless things have changed there and their website hasn't kept up.
This means that the finest line is a scale 1.6" in diameter, which although still way too big, is small enough according to your pics.

Although the wires are made from different metals, it appears to me that when they're looked at against the sky, they all look to be the same color, which could be represented by either black or a dark warm gray.

However, when looked at closely, you can see at least three different colors: (1) Gray (2) Light Green (3) Rusty Brown.  If you'd like to represent these three colors, the "Pole Line Diagram" will give you a hint as to where to string them on your crossarms.

Here's a close-up of the wires on UP telegraph/utility poles at the same place as the previous photo.  I hope you can enlarge it enough to see the different line colors.

Pole Line Colors:


Now, if we only had something like the Rix crossarms available in N-scale!

[wazzou]

Now, if we only had something like the Rix crossarms available in N-scale!

I've lobbied Rick on these for years.

[nkalanaga]

Pole spacing is determined by several factors, some under the company's control and some not.  Among them are:

Voltage:  Higher voltages require greater ground clearance, which means either higher poles or shorter spacing, to control sag.  Signal and bare-wire phone lines are low voltage, so the clearance requirements are minimal.  Incidentally, on mixed-use poles, high voltages should always be above low voltages, with communication lines on the bottom.

Temperature:  Wires stretch in hot weather, as well as heating themselves under heavy loads.  A wire that may be within standards in cool weather may hang too low in hot weather.  Since stretching is proportional to the length of the wire, longer spacing will result in greater stretching, again requiring taller poles.  Again, signal and phone lines carry low currents, so resistance heating losses are minimal.  Air temperature can be a big factor depending on the region's climate.

Wire strength:  Most long-span wires have either a steel support wire or a steel core, as copper isn't the strongest material in tension.  Railroads tended to use plain copper wire for signal and telephone lines, and had to keep the wire strength in mind.

Other uses:  One common use on railroads was as mile markers.  If the poles were properly spaced an engineer could count the poles passed in a certain time and find his speed.  Some timetables even had conversion charts on the back.  Count the poles in so many seconds, look at the chart, and you're done.

[randgust]

I got to see Mike's in person today, and wow, am I sold.   A close-up doesn't do it justice when you see an entire pole line in perspective that's wired up.

Mike had to insist that I push it down with my fingers myself to prove how flexible it really is.   I did pole lines in HO when I was a kid and it was ....uh... interesting, not to be repeated.   But the ATSF layout has a pole line running beside it that is one of the 70's signatures, so, it's on the 'list' now.

[BCR751]

I would think that the fine stuff, 0.006", would be perfect for high tension wires in N-Scale.  I'm talking about the wire that is found on the large steel towers.  That stuff has to be an inch or so in diameter.

Doug

[robert3985]

I would think that the fine stuff, 0.006", would be perfect for high tension wires in N-Scale.  I'm talking about the wire that is found on the large steel towers.  That stuff has to be an inch or so in diameter.

Doug

Berkshire Junction lists only two sizes of EZ Line..."Fine" at .010" diameter, and "Heavy" at .020" diameter.  I'm not sure where the claimed measurements of .003" and .006" are coming from, but I've started a thread to get some actual measurements.