Author Topic: Steam mfg ?  (Read 1417 times)

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Flagler

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Steam mfg ?
« on: July 31, 2013, 02:43:57 PM »
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I just received my New Athern Challenger with DCC/Sound equipped.The packaging is the same as th Intermoutain
Cab Forward.Are these made by the same company in China. My Cab forwards run great

Flagler

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2013, 03:12:31 PM »
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top secret info I guess

pnolan48

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2013, 06:57:45 PM »
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Not so secret, I think.

What was the same? The box?

Whom did you receive them from? Direct from the factory? From an etailer?

If you are implying that the same factory might make engines for two or more USA companies, that's not exactly news.

SkipGear

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2013, 02:48:57 PM »
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I'm not sure anybody knows. There have been new places springing up to fill the void that Kader created. Athearn changed to a new plant. IM never really talked about who makes their mechanisms. Everybody except Lionel has bailed from Kader (Bachmann), Ajin is still out there and they look sort of Ajin style design but the boxes look very Kaderish. With the way things are copied at free will in China, who knows what is created, what is copied. 
Tony Hines

havingfuntoo

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2013, 09:03:31 PM »
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You will find the boxes are probably made by the same specialist manufacturer, it does not necessarily reflect on the manufacturer of the contents of the box. It is the same situation as we have with food jars and cardboard tetra packs.

spookshow

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2013, 11:03:38 PM »
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I thought I'd read somewhere that Ajin had completely bailed on N scale (as long as we're idly speculating about stuff). A big problem for Model Power if true.

Cheers,
-Mark

pnolan48

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2013, 11:25:36 PM »
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I dealt with Chinese factories many years ago, just as China was opening up. This was not in hobby manufacturing, but the rules probably still apply. You had a manufacturing slot for your product and, if it was ready, it would be produced--UNLESS the factory could make more money producing something else, in which case you lost your slot. You would not necessarily get the next slot, and sometimes just went to the back of the queue, where your next slot might be three months or more away. I suspect the back of the queue is now about a year. It was unbridled capitalism, and "sweeteners" were often required. The sweeteners were often 100 percent of the original contract.

Nato

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2013, 04:51:53 PM »
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 :|         I' am convinced they were or are from the same factory. Identical sized blue boxes, same outside plastic bag, the IM foam insert has the same cut out where the small RC sound controller on first gen Athearn locos went, still there in inserts for second gen locos. The plastic and thin plastic clam shell the locos come in and the outer insert sleeve are the same, even the area in the foam where the locos nest is the same length for all three locomotives. My Athearn locomotives will pull 30+ cars straight out of the box not by IM cab forwards, but that is another discussion topic. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

Flagler

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2013, 09:48:46 AM »
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Thanks Nato, I confirm your findings. These are from the same mfg,thats good news.

peteski

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2013, 10:19:10 PM »
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:|         I' am convinced they were or are from the same factory. Identical sized blue boxes, same outside plastic bag, the IM foam insert has the same cut out where the small RC sound controller on first gen Athearn locos went, still there in inserts for second gen locos. The plastic and thin plastic clam shell the locos come in and the outer insert sleeve are the same, even the area in the foam where the locos nest is the same length for all three locomotives. My Athearn locomotives will pull 30+ cars straight out of the box not by IM cab forwards, but that is another discussion topic. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.


If you are judging by the packaging then I would say that they are not made by the same manufacturer.  Here are some specifics:

Boxes are not identical size.  They have different dimensions.




The foam inserts, while they do both have 2 accessory openings, are quite different.  The openings are different sizes and at slightly different location.  The biggest mismatch is the fact that the openings in the IM insert have rounded corners, while Athearn insert openings have sharp corners.



I haven't yet compared the construction of the mechanism, so the the jury is still out.  :) But the boxes are made differently.
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Flagler

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2013, 07:30:37 AM »
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Petesky,Great work,do you work on your RR with this much detail?
We are comparing the clam shell & sleeve only not the box & foam.

DKS

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2013, 08:40:34 AM »
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Petesky,Great work,do you work on your RR with this much detail?

Yes, he does.  :trollface:

We are comparing the clam shell & sleeve only not the box & foam.

Judging from Peteski's photos, the clamshells appear to be quite different as well.
“Everyone leaves unfinished business. That's what dying is.” —Amos, The Expanse

peteski

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Re: Steam mfg ?
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2013, 12:59:01 PM »
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Petesky,Great work,do you work on your RR with this much detail?
We are comparing the clam shell & sleeve only not the box & foam.

Well, maybe you do but I was directly answering Nate's post where he was comparing boxes and foam inserts.

Plus, your initial post states "The packaging is the same as th Intermoutain
Cab Forward.Are these made by the same company in China. My Cab forwards run great"  Where exactly are you stating that you are comparing clamshells?  :facepalm:  "Packaging" to me infers everything: Box, foam inserts and the clamsheels with sleeve.

 As DKS noted, the details of the vacu-formed clamshells are also quite different.  That is also apparent in my photos.

Like I said, the packaging is not the same. If the packaging alone is a base for the assumption that both models were made by the same company then I would have to say that these were made by different companies.

A better test would be to compare construction of the mechanism.  Things like the driver axles diameter, the shape of their bearings and wheel construction along with the gear train design, would be a better indicator if those were made by the same company.  But even that is not a foolproof indication, as companies often copy each others designs.  Or use commonly available components.

On the other hand, even if the designs are different that still doesn't preclude the possibility that these models were made by the same company. I just wanted to say that unlike what you and Nate said, the packaging  of these 2 models is clearly not the same. I also provided photographic evidence to dispel any doubts.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 01:01:48 PM by peteski »
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