Taking the Plunge on Turnout Construction

[jdcolombo]

Speaking of flux, has anybody read the letter to the editor in the current issue on MR Magazine. A person with a professional soldering experience also states that no extra flux should ever be needed during soldering.  In my experience, I find that sometimes the resin flux in the solder is often too mild to clean the soldered surfaces.

Besides, if no extra flux was ever needed, why are there so many different standalone fluxes available out there? 

I haven't seen the letter, but I do know that flux is used routinely in plumbing and other metal solder work.  I've watched a lot of plumbers, including my father-in-law, do copper pipe, always with a paste flux.  As I said in my earlier post, I've never used flux for electronic component soldering, but turnout construction may be more like plumbing?

Which brings me to the next question: liquid, gel or paste flux?  [I think I read a thread on this somewhere; probably should engage the search engine].

John C.

[DKS]

I've soldered up to Code 80 rail with just a 30 watt iron with no difficulties. It's really about choosing the right tip, versus the power. A small chisel tip (as opposed to pointed or needle tips) holds sufficient heat to solder a rail joint, which should take less than two seconds. Temperature-controlled irons are strongly recommended because they won't overheat the tip, which should remain clean and well-tinned at all times.

As for not using flux, I've read this as well and always wondered why it would be recommended. In my experience, not using flux increases the risk of a bad solder joint substantially, especially since I always use electronics-grade solder, which has only a tiny amount of flux. The primary purpose of flux is to prevent oxidation of the metal at the joint (secondarily to chemically clean the metal) because heating accelerates oxidation; therefore, there must be sufficient flux to completely seal the metal surfaces during the soldering process so that the solder bonds to the metal properly. (That's why plumbers slather a thick layer of paste on pipes to be soldered: it takes a while to bring the pipes up to temperature, and there needs to be enough flux present to keep working by the time the solder can be applied.)

Without getting into another "this is the absolute best flux" argument, I will simply state that liquid acid flux can produce outstanding results. Once I started using it, I've not found a need to try anything else as I am 100% satisfied with the outcome. The brand I use is Stay Clean, which is water-based, so cleanup is as easy as swabbing the joint with alcohol (most pastes leave a residue that must be cleaned with solvent or other cleaner). I will hasten to add that this is based on my personal experience, and I would not insist it's the right choice for everyone. Both liquid and paste type fluxes are fine, and each have their advantages.

As always, YMMV.

[babbo_enzo]

Hi all
Bob: very good tips summary for "novices" and also some good remind for an old Hostler ( or Blacksmith ?) 
This is one of advantage of a native language speaker 
I agree a variable temperature iron is better ( I use an old Weller and set the temperature to 300-350 C° )
Also find that a liquid flux work better and can be controlled better ( I use a thin brush dedicated for this job)
As stated from others , different flux exist to act better for different metals, so select one that is not so much "corrosive" for brass ( that is a soft metal) , but is listed for Nikel silver ( a strong alloy )
About solder ... yes, I'm convinced that a silver component is stronger, and I've no problem for years, but this maybe is just a personal "illusion".
Take care, friends

[robert3985]

CORRECTION!...In my post about soldering, a typo got through.  The iron I use is a 35 Watt iron, Archer (Radio Shack) with the original wedge tip...still good after at least 20 years...NOT 135 WATTS!!!  Wow...that'd be interesting!! 

[ednadolski]

You guys are making me want to build some turnouts!    Even tho I don't need any right now!

Ed

[Kisatchie]

You guys are making me want to build some turnouts!    Even tho I don't need any right now!

I just got to thinking, and I looked at my flex track again and realized - the turnouts have to be VERY small. I decided I'll never be able to build my own.


Hmm... just finished my
100th Z scale turnout...

[MichaelWinicki]

I just got to thinking, and I looked at my flex track again and realized - the turnouts have to be VERY small. I decided I'll never be able to build my own.

You could build 3-way turnouts... They would be bigger! 

[ednadolski]

You could build 3-way turnouts... They would be bigger! 

Would that need a 135 Watt iron?   

Ed

[Kisatchie]

Would that need a 135 Watt iron?   

Hmm... I'm guessing a
5 iron...

[basementcalling]

CORRECTION!...In my post about soldering, a typo got through.  The iron I use is a 35 Watt iron, Archer (Radio Shack) with the original wedge tip...still good after at least 20 years...NOT 135 WATTS!!!  Wow...that'd be interesting!! 

So are you really using code 140 and 155 rail? 

[jdcolombo]

CORRECTION!...In my post about soldering, a typo got through.  The iron I use is a 35 Watt iron, Archer (Radio Shack) with the original wedge tip...still good after at least 20 years...NOT 135 WATTS!!!  Wow...that'd be interesting!! 

I thought that was probably a typo, but glad to know that my Weller WP35 will probably do the trick and that I don't need an arc welder .

I'm actually getting pretty excited about trying this.  Always up for learning something new, and I've thought about doing this for several years.  Now just waiting on Fast Tracks to send me supplies.  Got the solder and flux on their way. 

John C.

[bill pearce]

Here's another way. Before assembly, lightly tin the PC ties, and tin the underside of the rail with just a bit more. Then, at assembly, put just a dot of paste flux (I used Kester from an electronics supply house) with a toothpick at the places being soldered. Then, just a bit of heat and bingo, you're soldered. Try a few with your pencil irons and then get a resistance solderer. You'll thank me.

AS to hinged points, never did them never had problems, but I can see how on something as small as a #5 you could have problems. File a bit off the rail's flange and it will flex better.

[DKS]

I decided I'll never be able to build my own.

Well, then. Guess you never will. Hope you decide to keep breathing... 

Try a few with your pencil irons and then get a resistance solderer. You'll thank me.

Maybe. Have both. IMO, resistance soldering ain't all it's cracked up to be.

As to hinged points... I've had good success drilling holes up through the base of the point rails at the hinge end, and silver-soldering pieces of steel wire into the holes. Then I drilled holes through the ties in the turnout, inserted the wires, and bent them on the underside of the switch to secure them. The wires also provided spring tension to the points so they didn't need to be secured to the throw bar--they remained pinned against a block in the middle that pushed the points to one position or the other.

[jdcolombo]

Here's another way. Before assembly, lightly tin the PC ties, and tin the underside of the rail with just a bit more. Then, at assembly, put just a dot of paste flux (I used Kester from an electronics supply house) with a toothpick at the places being soldered. Then, just a bit of heat and bingo, you're soldered. Try a few with your pencil irons and then get a resistance solderer. You'll thank me.

AS to hinged points, never did them never had problems, but I can see how on something as small as a #5 you could have problems. File a bit off the rail's flange and it will flex better.

Tinning components pre-assembly has always been my standard operating procedure for electronics soldering.  Even doing track feeders, I tin the rail, tin the wire, then do the connection (with just a rosin-core solder and no additional flux).  I wondered about this too - when I watched the Fast Tracks videos, I was wondering why they don't tin the ties at the connection points before final assembly.  Easy to do, since the jig shows you exactly where the rail is going to cross the tie (might be less precise with the rail, but a black marker dot on the railhead would show where the connection point was).  Of course, tinning is an additional step that takes time, but it can't take much - a minute, maybe, with the ties in the jig.   More things to try, but this is like everything else in model railroading - assimilate different techniques until you get one that works and you're comfortable with.  I figure that if I can learn how to cram a TSU-750, a speaker and a Lenz Silver Mini in a 2-8-0 for sound, I can find a good technique to build turnouts .

John C.

[robert3985]

Although I use my old Archer 35 Watt wedge-tipped iron a lot still, I confess that lately I've been using my American Beauty 250 Watt Resistance Soldering Station a lot more.  Frankly, after I burned up a couple of PCB ties and turned the power dial waaaaay down, this is the soldering method of choice for me to build turnouts with.  And yes, it IS all it's cracked up to be.

The main advantage I get out of using it, is that I can hold and solder with the same tool....clamp, step on the pedal, pfffft (smoke), solder liquifies and runs, off the pedal...continue holding, cool...done.  On to the next joint.  It allows a much more precise soldering process than using an iron, where most of the time I would do better if I had three hands. 

Pre-tinning helps a lot, even with the resistance solderer, but if you can afford it, and you have other soldering projects a good resistance soldering station with tweezers and probe is the way to go. 

I have four tools for soldering/brazing: (1) 35 Watt Soldering Iron (2) Weller adjustable heat soldering station (3) Resistance Soldering Station (4) Little Torch Oxy-Acetelene mini torch.  Sometimes in the course of making brass/NS models, I have had a use for all of them. 

However, for making turnouts, just a plain old 35 Watt iron is sufficient.

Micro Mark has them on sale periodically and I would spring for the American Beauty