Starting in DCC: Need some advice

[Dave Schneider]

Hello all,

I am a DCC newbie, as I haven't had a layout to operate since before this was invented (or so it seems). I got a good deal on a Digitrax DB150 command station ($50) and am trying to figure out what else I need.  I have some nice power supplies, but am looking for guidance on Digitrax throttles.

First of all, I (will) have a relatively small layout, and will not be doing anything fancy with controlling turnouts or signaling. Just between 0 and 3 people running trains (usually just me). I don't have a massive locomotive fleet. I can't imagine it being more than 20 units max.

I like the looks of the so-called Digitrax Utility Throttles (UT-4 series), because it has a small number of buttons and a big control dial. The super throttles look overly complicated to me, but it looks like I will need something other than a UT-4 for programming. Correct?

I found some DT-300Rs that look like they would work for programming. Are these adequate, or would I be getting something that is functionally obsolete? I might like to add SurroundTraxx at some point, is this a consideration for a programming throttle? Finally, was is the utility of Duplex radio throttle? I think I understand Simplex, but what is the deal with having the "layout talk back to the throttle"? Or do I have this wrong?

Thanks in advance for any advice or thoughts.

Best wishes, Dave

[Ike the BN Freak]

For programming, I found the DT series throttle a bit hard to do if you want to change CVs.  So I got a Locobuffer USB, http://www.rr-cirkits.com/LocoBuffer-II/locobuffer-II.html, and DecoderPro on a laptop.  However if you plan on using sound, and use the Digitrax sound decoders that you can add your own sound files to, you'll need a Digitrax PR3, http://www.digitrax.com/products/computer-control/pr3xtra/.  Being you plan to one day go to sound, I'd say spend the extra money on the PR3 now, versus twice down the road.

UT series throttles are really nice, if you plan on using 4 digit addressing, get the UT-4, otherwise UT-1s and 2s work fine for 2 digit.  Also UT-2s can be used for programming, just I have no idea how.

The DT series throttles are also easier to turn track power on/off with, however, if you have a computer always hooked up to the digitrax system, you can do it through decoderPro.

As for Duplex, its much like the radio or IR system that Simplex can already handle, but you can acquire and dispatch loco/consist without having to plug into the loconet using the tether on the throttle.  However the DT300R is not a duplex throttle, only the DT402D/DCE and UT4D/DCE are duplex, the DCE also being radio equipped.

As for the DB150, its the mid range command station, so it can only handle 22 address at once, so if you are running a 3 unit consist with all 3 locos running with different address and they are MU'd, you'll be using 4 of the 22 address blocks.  So this is something to keep in mind while operating.  However with decoderPro, you can release addresses that are not being used to free up space.

Hope that all helps, I've been using Digitrax since about 99, but I don't know how it all works either, esp the modifying the CVs with the throttle.

[John]

Pretty much what Ike said .. although - if your layout is small, you may want to just skip the radio option and use tethered mode ..

+1 on the JMRI setup .. Locobuffer is the way to go .. trying to program with a throttle will give you more heartburn than a magma fault ...

Locobuffer and JMRI can be used to control an iphone or droid engine driver throttle .. so you can do wireless on your phone ..

[TiVoPrince]

Programming
in a cryptic experience using any DCC throttle.  The simplicity of utility throttles makes day-to-day operating a joy.  Ability to just pick up a throttle and go wild is hard to beat.  Digitrax UT1 and U2 are end of life and without radio options, so unless you are willing to self-repair (like me) the UT4/R/D is the obvious choice.

Decoder Pro (JMRI) takes the frustration out of programming making it a point-shoot experience.
Locobuffer - the overwhelming choice of RailWire members
Digitax PR3 - if you need to programme digitrax sound decoders
Once you start Decoder Pro the actual device is pretty transparent, to me anyway.  Using an 18v power supply and not the 12v minimum Digitrax sells.  Digitrax documentation says up to 20v so I feel comfortable using an old HP printer 18v 2.5amp brick to power it.  Sound decoder programming has been quite reliable since going to the higher voltage and amperage.  Hasn't melted yet.

A cheap refurbished or spare/demoted wireless router on a secondary network (unbridged) allows a simple iPhone/Android login and password for guests.  The rest of your network remains secure.  I like to use JMRI as the network broadcast ID and all 4s as the password.  You may find that you prefer the smart phone interface.  I still like the Digitrax utility throttles best, but the wireless option continues to grow on me....

[rswinnerton]

Go with the PR3 and DecoderPRO. It makes programming soooo easy.

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks for the advice. Glad to know that I don't need a different throttle just to program. I still am wondering about Simplex vs Duplex radio. The price difference is small so I am curious about the differences.

Thanks again for the info.
Best wishes, Dave

[Philip H]

Add duplex and the wireless throttle option from JMRI as described. Then any a$$hat can run on your layout.

[TiVoPrince]

Duplex
is not a superset of simplex as I understand it.  Duplex requires a duplex receiver and duplex throttles but is not cross compatible with the regular radio hardware.  If you choose the radio you will need to plug in to dispatch addresses where duplex can release without plugging in.  Useful?  Absolutely but the long history of radio makes it a solid contender too.

Check auction sites and local swap lists for cheap smartphones that you can use as throttles.  This is looking more like my 'going forward' process.  Hand visitors a smart phone already configured and they are good to go.  Visitors know how to use smartphones already, even railroaders don't always know Digitrax if they us something else at home...

[peteski]

My advice would have been to choose any system but Digitrax.  FOr your size layout, the CVP EasyDCC or even one of the NCE systems woudl have been a good choice.  Either is so much easier and less cryptic to figure out than Digitrax.  Of course I'll get flak from Digitrax people but after dealing with all 3 systems menioned here, my opinion will not change.

To put it in perspective, I'm no stranger to technology so it isn't that I'm afraid (or don't understand) technical stuff.  Just Digitrax, to me, has terrible user manuals and awkward user interface.  Sure, JMRI works around some of the awkwardness, but with the other systems programming is so much more intuitive that there really is no need to use JMRI on a small layout with a small fleet of locos.

One layout which I frequent (Ernie Poole's Montana Rail Link, featured in Model Railroader few years back) uses EasyDCC.  We usually operate with a crew or 6 or 7. We do have JMRI installed but we never really found any compelling need to use it to program locos.  If anything, we use the JMRI on-screen throttle to run a train which has a on-board camera installed (with a live video feed to another window on the PC).

[Ike the BN Freak]

Programming
in a cryptic experience using any DCC throttle.  The simplicity of utility throttles makes day-to-day operating a joy.  Ability to just pick up a throttle and go wild is hard to beat.  Digitrax UT1 and U2 are end of life and without radio options, so unless you are willing to self-repair (like me) the UT4/R/D is the obvious choice.

You can get a UT-1 or UT-2 with Radio, just they are harder to find.

I still am wondering about Simplex vs Duplex radio. The price difference is small so I am curious about the differences.

Thanks again for the info.
Best wishes, Dave

As for Duplex, its much like the radio or IR system that Simplex can already handle, but you can acquire and dispatch loco/consist without having to plug into the loconet using the tether on the throttle.  However the DT300R is not a duplex throttle, only the DT402D/DCE and UT4D/DCE are duplex, the DCE also being radio equipped.  But you'll need duplex receivers for it to work.  I myself have to update my receivers to handle the duplex otherwise all I'll have is IR with my duplex throttle.

[Dave Schneider]

Thanks Guys. I now understand the Simplex/Duplex thing for my purposes.

Philip, I didn't know that those throttles had that kind of range! I would need to install some web cams,  but on the plus side I get to drink all the beer. Hmmm......

I am not really that interested in smartphones as a throttle. It is a cool looking thing and probably really practical, but my layout is more switching and less train running, and I think I would prefer the physical dial to a touch interface. As I acquire more life experience, I find that my phone screen is getting harder to see. I think I will go with the UT4 series.

Peteski, thanks for the feedback. I got a good deal on the base station and I like the form factor of the Utility Throttles. Maybe this will turn out to be a false economy...I hope not.

Really helpful information everybody. I appreciate your time in answering my questions. 

Best wishes, Dave

[Ike the BN Freak]

Add duplex and the wireless throttle option from JMRI as described. Then any a$$hat can run on your layout.

From my understanding of this, everyone has to be on the same wifi network in order to interface with JMRI, otherwise I'd be able to run trains on anyone's layout using my phone anywhere.

[reinhardtjh]

From my understanding of this, everyone has to be on the same wifi network in order to interface with JMRI, otherwise I'd be able to run trains on anyone's layout using my phone anywhere.

When you are at a person's layout, you set up your phone to attach to their Wi-Fi network, then the phone app will find the JMRI server and you can access the layout.  Typically the addresses are not routed onto the internet so you cannot connect to a person's JMRI from a remote location.  If you wanted you, you could set up the JMRI server with a public IP address that would allow people to connect.  The author of the Android EngineDriver app has a demo server set up that lets you log on and test the app on your phone.  The iPhone version WIThrottle may also have something similar.

[Ike the BN Freak]

WiThrottle requires a local network.

[Dave Schneider]

With regards to smartphone throttles....does anyone want to share their opinion about their ease of use (positive or negative) for extensive switching operations. That is mostly how I will be operating, and my preconcieved opinion is that adjusting the speed with a physical dial would work better than a smartphone slider.

Best wishes, Dave