Advice on sound for steam locomotives

[carlso]

Question for John Colombo.

Have you tried the "sugar cube" speaker in any of your installs? If so, how would you rate it compared to the ovals that you use?

Carl

[Cajonpassfan]

John, WOW...thanks for the videos and pics!  I've got hope for installing TSU's in my brass UP USRA 2-8-0's now!...which I've been worrying about for about two years...

Robert, I admire John C's work as much as anyone, and he's the one who turned me on to the tantalum caps a while back. But, while I believe a solid  enclosure mated to the biggest and best quality speaker is indeed essential, I've had very good luck with brass tender shells as enclosures. I have some 16mm wide speakers, shaved to fit within the body using the body as a nice BiG enclosure. You need to make it tight, and screwing it down tight usually works. I tried the same with plastic shells and the sound is crap; too much resonance, vibration or some such, and a solid metal (lead?) enclosure is definitely the way to go with plastic tenders. You may want to try this first on your brass tender and maximize the speaker size within the space you have.
And what's an USRA 2-8-0?
Best, Otto K.

[jdcolombo]

Question for John Colombo.

Have you tried the "sugar cube" speaker in any of your installs? If so, how would you rate it compared to the ovals that you use?

Carl

Hi Carl.

Nope, haven't tried that one.  Do you have a link?  Might order one to see . . .

John C.

[jdcolombo]

Robert, I admire John C's work as much as anyone, and he's the one who turned me on to the tantalum caps a while back. But, while I believe a solid  enclosure mated to the biggest and best quality speaker is indeed essential, I've had very good luck with brass tender shells as enclosures. I have some 16mm wide speakers, shaved to fit within the body using the body as a nice BiG enclosure. You need to make it tight, and screwing it down tight usually works. I tried the same with plastic shells and the sound is crap; too much resonance, vibration or some such, and a solid metal (lead?) enclosure is definitely the way to go with plastic tenders. You may want to try this first on your brass tender and maximize the speaker size within the space you have.
And what's an USRA 2-8-0?
Best, Otto K.

Hi Otto.

Now that you mention it, I didn't use an enclosure for my sound install in my Key brass Berkshire.  I don't remember why - it had something to do with the way the internal bracing for the tender shell was made.  So I just used a 16 x 35 mm speaker in the coal load area, and it sounds great.  But I also remember that I tried this same thing with my very first sound install in a LifeLike Berk, and it sounded terrible (plastic tender).  It may simply be that the way brass tenders are made, they seal better and have less resonance.   Don't know - my Key Berk is the only brass I own.

John C.

[robert3985]

Robert, I admire John C's work as much as anyone, and he's the one who turned me on to the tantalum caps a while back. But, while I believe a solid  enclosure mated to the biggest and best quality speaker is indeed essential, I've had very good luck with brass tender shells as enclosures. I have some 16mm wide speakers, shaved to fit within the body using the body as a nice BiG enclosure. You need to make it tight, and screwing it down tight usually works. I tried the same with plastic shells and the sound is crap; too much resonance, vibration or some such, and a solid metal (lead?) enclosure is definitely the way to go with plastic tenders. You may want to try this first on your brass tender and maximize the speaker size within the space you have.
And what's an USRA 2-8-0?
Best, Otto K.

Otto, Such tact.  No such thing as a USRA 2-8-0 on the UP.       Somewhere in my brain, I was also thinking about my USRA Light Mikes (with big Sweeny stacks), which need to get sound-ized too.

Got to looking at the brass Vandy tenders on my Key UP 2-8-0's...ain't gonna be easy, as the entire tender body is a cylinder, with the exception of the coal bin, with no access to the tenders' interiors.  Still need to do some thinking about this project...

However, the Light Mikes will be easy since they've got the "square" USRA tenders.  Need to fabricate new drawbars to get tenders and engines a bit closer together however.

Nice to know about brass tender bodies acting as effective speaker enclosures....that'll save some work, 'cause I've got a lot of brass to DCC-ize 

[Cajonpassfan]

Bob, I've never been accused of being tactful before
I have the same Harriman 2-8-0 you do, it's a great running sweet little loco with a small Vandy tender. I've been "deferring" conversion to DCC sound for it hoping somebody else will do the heavy lifting or for technology to evolve to give us M 'n M- sized speakers to fit that tender. The Model Power Vandy is very similar and it's easier to modify to all wheel pickup and to create space for decoder and speaker. The round 16mm fits the fuel bunker but won't give us great sound. I'm thinking of trying the Loksound micro in that one...it will fit the water compartment nicely I think.
Your big stacked "Mac Arthurs" should be relatively easy; again, all wheel pickup would be helpful at least on the tenders.
John, I'd be very curious about your assessment of the "sugar cubes". The larger one is only 11x11x15mm, the smaller one like 8x12..... and they seem reasonably priced, including enclosures. I'm skeptical of the sound quality but will be happy to change my mind...
Have fun, Otto K.
PS: I still think Tony's TTX Mini ovals with enclosure give the best sound for their size, if. Space is super restricted.

[Mike Madonna]

Question for John Colombo.

Have you tried the "sugar cube" speaker in any of your installs? If so, how would you rate it compared to the ovals that you use?

Carl

Hi Carl,

I have used the CT Elektronik 10mm x 15mm "Sugar Cube" speaker in two IM AC-12 installs with very impressive results. I have a few YouTube "Demo" videos that speak "volumes" (pun intended) on the speaker.

Mike

[Cajonpassfan]

Thanks Mike, that's good to know.
I think I'll order a couple and do a comparo. They seem to be priced right, too, considering an enclosure is, well, enclosed...
Otto

[carlso]

Mike,

thanks for your reply to my question. I purchased a sugar cube and am contemplating replacing the oval that I put in my AC-12 with it. The oval is enclosed but has no volume. I have one of Tony's (TTX) mini ovals with enclosure in a brass challenger and like the volume it has with a Loksound decoder. I can't decide wether to put the "cube' or Tony's oval into the AC-12 with the Tsunami.

Carl

[Cajonpassfan]

Carl, just test them side by side with their enclosures on. Stick'em on some double sided tape and use simple alligator clips and go back and forth between speakers to test the sound. I've done that with multiple speaker combos and the differences are very apparent. You can also play with the decoder settings. I'd be curious what you think about the sugar cube relative to the TTX Mini oval.
Regards, Otto

[carlso]

Otto,

good idea regarding comparing speakers. Last night I connected my sugar cube (not sure which brand) to a Tsunami in a GS-4. Sound is good but not quite as loud as I had hoped for. However, I have not tweaked any cv's as yet. That may make a difference. As far as the TTX mini oval (14mmx25mm) goes, I think it is the loudest of all that I have tried including some I got from Digi-Key. I say that, with tongue in cheek,  because the TTX is paired with the speaker that comes with the Loksound Select Micro and mounted in the challenger tender. It is loud. Only if I caould get it to run well. One of our members has it now to "fix" for me. Should be great.

As an after thought, when I purchased the TTX mini oval they told me that it was the same speaker used in the Broadway Limited units and that if I had ever heard one of them that I would know how loud it would be. Possibly just sales hype.

Carl

[Cajonpassfan]

Carl, it's not just a question of " loud", its also about the sound quality. Granted, here has to be certain volume, before one can talk about sound quality; if you can't hear it, it's moot. My BLI units have dual round speakers with minuscule enclosures because there is limited space in the powered units, and while I think they are okay,  I get better quality sound out of single TTX minis, at least to my ear. Don't get me wrong, the BLI decoders are great and they generate a wide range of effects, but it get better diesel "growl" sound out of old Soundtraxx decoder  mated to TTX minis, again, subjectively, to my ear.
I am curious about the brand of your sugar cube...
Regards, Otto

[avel]

16V 150uF caps. My solution for dead frogs, and also it is the only engine I ever use on the small switching layout.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bRN4fvF0LtMpoiMlR1cucNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink

[carlso]

Otto, I have found the "cube" package and it is a Zimo "Sugar Cube" 15x11mm, 8 ohm, 1 watt. I agree that loudness is not the only desire, bad choice of words as I should have said quality of sound. Having said that, I placed the Zimo cube into my GS-4 with an old Tsunami, and found the sound about the same as the Digi-Key oval that was originally installed. So no big deal. However, I re-read this thread and especially John Colombo's comments regrading setting the Tsunami sound. I went to the equalizer and turned, completely off, all of the ranges except the 250 & 500 Hz ranges. All the difference in the world. There is more volume, better sounding chuffs and whistle. I never tweaked the equalizer with the Digi-Key speaker so I don't know how it would have sounded. Probably better. He hit it right on the head when he stated that leaving the higher and lower ranges on just wastes power output from the equalizer, IMHO. However better the Zimo is with the equalizer tweaking I think the TTX mini oval is just as good and possibly better. Actually the Zimo becomes failrly large when the enclosure is attached. Price wise, basically the same.

I think you are correct in saying it is what sounds good to me. At my age I am having problems hearing those tiny N scale waves. Heck at my age I'm having trouble hearing any waves. That's life.

Carl

[peteski]

And all this time I thought "sugar cube" was a brand name for a specific speaker (made by a specific manufacturer)....  Can all the sugar cube speakers users here provide more specific information about your particular "cube"?