Author Topic: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question  (Read 1300 times)

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rsn48

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Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« on: February 21, 2013, 02:33:48 PM »
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If I lay down Woodland Scenic's turf, and let the whole thing dry, can I add static weeds latter?  I'm thinking what effect will flooding the WS turf with white glue/water to add the weeds do after it has dried.

Like many I'm trying to come up with an economical lighting system that is effective and suitable for my area; for example, hanging fluorescents won't work in my area, but flush mounted fluorescents would.  What some of you will remember is the old system of lighting where a guy would use a standard incandescent light bulb strung along the line, the obvious problem is heat.  But can't you do the same with the small screw in fluorescent 13 watt bulbs (suppose to be equivalent to 60 watts) every foot and a half.  I have a double decker so I think the wattage would be okay, on the bottom level, the bulbs would be roughly 18 inches away from the first decks surface.  On the upper deck, the bulbs would be roughly 36 inches away from the surface.  What are the down sides of this method.  At roughly 24 bulbs, that would be 312 watts in total.
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Dave Schneider

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2013, 02:40:29 PM »
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Illumination decreases with the square of the distance, so by doubling the distance you will get 4x less illumination for a given source.

Best wishes, Dave
If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.

Bendtracker1

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2013, 03:39:45 PM »
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If I lay down Woodland Scenic's turf, and let the whole thing dry, can I add static weeds latter?  I'm thinking what effect will flooding the WS turf with white glue/water to add the weeds do after it has dried.

I ran across this awhile back while doing some research on the Static Grass:
/>
Also:
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=23859.msg232403#msg232403


rsn48

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2013, 05:03:25 PM »
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The first video is exactly what I am looking for and the technique obviously works with grass already down.  I love the look found on the video, thanks for posting the link.    :lol:
Hind sight is always better than foresight, except for lost opportunity costs.

mark.hinds

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 05:11:23 PM »
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Consider using LED strip lighting. 

Although I haven't actually installed my lighting yet, research indicates that LEDs save you a huge amount on energy usage and heat buildup.  For example, we now use LED bulbs in our kitchen (not strip lighting), and save 75-80% on energy usage.  You can mix and match different temperature LED strips to adjust color balance.  Some personal experiment would be a good idea here.  One thing to be aware of is that a single strip of low-cost consumer LEDs doesn't produce as much light as you expect.  You can get an advance idea of how many strips to use (and the possible cost) by calculating the lumen output per unit length, from product specs.  As reference, a 60 watt incandescent produces about 800 lumens.

In my case, I am planning on using higher-intensity LED strips, in order to get my desired illumination level (equivalent to one 60 watt incandescent every 4 feet).  These higher-intensity LEDs cost more per strip, but may actually be less per lumen per unit length.  Here are some links which I found a year ago, when I last visited this topic: 

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/flexible-strips-and-bars/ 
http://www.elementalled.com/shop-by-item/strip-lights.html

One last comment is that if your layout design allows you to put the lighting closer to the scene, instead of way up on the ceiling, that will help with the intensity issue (as implied by Dave Schneider above).  In my case, my LEDs will be mounted on inside of my upper valence strip, and thus will be within 1-3 feet of the layout surface.  See https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28831.0  On the other hand, this guy put them on the ceiling http://www.lkorailroad.com/lighting-system-operational/

MH
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 05:20:47 PM by mark.hinds »

Dave Schneider

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 05:37:46 PM »
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Here is an interesting thread (in my opinion), where LED and other types of lighting are discussed. Some very interesting information and links, including a Railwire first of the the discussion of the Planck curve (it is how I was able to search for the thread).

https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=27493.0

I have decided to go with T-8 florescent tubes, twin bulbs, and 4100 K temperature (at present). They are mounted about 18 inches above the surface, use a valance reflector (white paint), and my shelf depth is 18-24 inches. I am mostly happy with them (at present).



From: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=24044.75

Here is a recent view of my results with the T-8s. You can see a couple of issues.

1) There is uneven lighting as the scene depth increase from 18 inches on the left, to 24 inches on the right. The might improve as I add the next fixture to the right. It is more noticeable in photos that in person (as is usually the case).
2) There is a shadow from a valance I installed behind the main black fascia to block the view of the fixture. It is good to avoid this type of problem if possible.  I will try to mitigate both of these issues with some auxiliary fixtures and/or LED strips.



Best wishes, Dave
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Bendtracker1

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2013, 06:06:31 PM »
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The first video is exactly what I am looking for and the technique obviously works with grass already down.  I love the look found on the video, thanks for posting the link.    :lol:

Sure, glad it was helpful.
I had the same question earlier and then I ran across that vid, can't wait to try it.

rsn48

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 06:59:51 PM »
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I would like to use LED lights if possible and I'm off to a local store this Saturday, if possible, fairly close to Central Hobbies on 1st and Boundary. This store specializes in LED lights.  I've seen Tim Horton's LED lights and they do the job and no heat issues, especially important in a smaller room such as he has and I have.

A buddy just bought and installed the cheap strips of LED's that come on a long roll.  The problem with his lighting is that since there is nothing diffusing the individual LED's, you can see these strange light reflections on your track, hard to describe but not a problem you want.  I've seen this problem and I know he is trying to get a work around for this issue.

Single fluorescent strip lighting will work but the cost is getting up there and I am not sure about amps used, again I'm in a small room and working with 15 amps.  But as the amps for lights goes up so does the heat kicked out by the lights go up.

Another option I read either here or a while ago at the now defunct Atlas forum, are fluorescent hockey puck type lighting, I'll be looking into that as well.

My lighting area, when all is added up isn't that long, about 40 feet (two decks and my nolix).

Here is the link to the store for you local guys:

 http://www.lightsandparts.com/
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Dave Schneider

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 07:20:27 PM »
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A 15 amp circuit at 110 volts yields 1650 watts of power (15X110).  You can accommodate quite a few 32 watt tubes on this circuit, and the heat output is about 20% of an incandescent light for a given level of illumination. Not trying to convince you one way or the other. In my situation, T-8 tubes were the most economical solution to achieve the level of lighting I needed.

Best wishes, Dave
If you lend someone $20, and never see that person again, it was probably worth it.

mark.hinds

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2013, 09:36:53 PM »
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<snip>
A buddy just bought and installed the cheap strips of LED's that come on a long roll.  The problem with his lighting is that since there is nothing diffusing the individual LED's, you can see these strange light reflections on your track, hard to describe but not a problem you want.  I've seen this problem and I know he is trying to get a work around for this issue.
<snip>

That doesn't sound good, although I haven't heard of this issue before.  I don't see it here on the truck image, for example:  http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?29029-Overhead-LED-strip-lighting/page2

I wonder if it's his LED strips per se, or something else specific to his installation.  What about putting putting a flat (not gloss) white-painted surface behind the LEDs.  Perhaps that would diffuse the overall lighting a bit more?

MH
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 10:21:05 PM by mark.hinds »

peteski

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2013, 01:26:52 AM »
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A 15 amp circuit at 110 volts yields 1650 watts of power (15X110).  You can accommodate quite a few 32 watt tubes on this circuit, and the heat output is about 20% of an incandescent light for a given level of illumination. Not trying to convince you one way or the other. In my situation, T-8 tubes were the most economical solution to achieve the level of lighting I needed.

Best wishes, Dave

Not quite.  The way I understand it, you are not supposed to load a 15 A circuit with continuous 15 amps.  I'm not an electrician (and don't knwo the exact specs) but I think that continuous load is not supposed to be higher than 80% of the breaker rating.
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Dave Schneider

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2013, 01:59:12 AM »
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Good point Peteski.  Thanks for the clarification.

Best wishes, Dave
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rogergperkins

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 07:28:42 AM »
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Looks as if you have learned that Static Grass can be added later and even repeatedly if one wishes to blend various colors and lengths.
On a surface with no scenery, I prefer to start by applying a coat of acrylic interior wall paint which I had mixed in "earth" color. Next apply static grass.
Video shows dabbing on thinned white glue later for another application of grass.

DO NOT FORGET TO CLEAN UP BY VACUUMING THE AREA THOROUGHLY TO PICK UP ALL STRAY FIBERS.
 ;) You do not want grass in the locomotive gears.

rsn48

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 05:13:28 PM »
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Mark, I suggested for the LED light solution was to purchase something like the plastic that goes into the fluorescent lighting you see in ceilings.  If you can somehow cut the plastic into strips and do a framing job to hold the plastic, this would diffuse the lighting.  I'm one of those into photography and flash diffusers are a dime a dozen out there, but do the job.

I know it isn't his installation, he's an electronic geek, our go to guy for some of us on this forum for all things electronics on our layouts.
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rogergperkins

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Re: Adding static weeds to grass & lighting question
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2013, 06:25:00 PM »
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/>Old David Frary video on Noch Grassmaster.