Author Topic: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....  (Read 1935 times)

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CBQ Fan

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Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« on: February 09, 2013, 09:55:36 AM »
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With Kato bringing out modified model F3's could that mean we could see minor changes that would give us a Phase II E5's?  Kato seems to have always stuck with original appearance from the factory.  On a side note that makes me more hopeful for red stripe E5 and a rerun on E8's (corrected with no DB) with both black and red stripes.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2013, 10:18:06 PM by CBQ Fan »
Brian

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wcfn100

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 11:44:11 AM »
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That's not a late model F3.  That is an F3 that was updated by the Santa Fe to look more like an F7.  I don't know if any other roads had anything like this.

Man, I was so distracted by the bright blue, I totally missed this.

Jason



Nato

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 04:01:49 PM »
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 :|           Other roads had what rail buffs fanzees called F-5's which were late model F-3's that looked like F-7's but had the F-3 dynamic brake slotted grids. These locomotives had low roof fans, UP and SP among other roads owned some,think the old Endo Micro Cast Brass? Key Imports F Unit model. Santa Fe also replaced the high fans with low ones on some of their upgraded F-3's and some F-7 freight diesels had no stainless side grills, because there were retrofitted to the upgraded passenger F-3's. Since the exaust fans were interchangeable,I seen photos of a few locomotives on various roads with a mix of high and low fans. Nate Goodman (Nato). Salt Lake, Utah.

wcfn100

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 04:34:08 PM »
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Other roads had what rail buffs fanzees called F-5's which were late model F-3's that looked like F-7's but had the F-3 dynamic brake slotted grids.

You can actually split that into two groups although they are externally the same.  The phase IV F3 is the exact same as the F5 except for the traction motors and cables.

I need a bunch of F5 style locos, but any low fan F3 would have been more welcome than this single road modification.

Jason

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2013, 10:18:53 PM »
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Modified, is that more acceptable??
Brian

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wcfn100

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2013, 11:36:10 PM »
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Modified, is that more acceptable??

Well, yeah.

Jason

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2013, 12:02:24 AM »
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Can't the F5 be done using Intermountain parts? I seem to remember that the DB and fan areas are seperate parts, so it should be possible to mix parts and make an F5.
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Cajonpassfan

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2013, 12:06:43 AM »
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Ummm, what am I missing? The new ATSF Kato F3 A unit looks just like the ones I bought 12 years ago... Two portholes, high fans, dynamic brake slits, except for the dual headlights. What's modified...?
Thanks, Otto

wcfn100

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2013, 12:23:02 AM »
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Can't the F5 be done using Intermountain parts? I seem to remember that the DB and fan areas are seperate parts, so it should be possible to mix parts and make an F5.

If you can get the parts, yes.  I don't know what's left for F unit plastic parts.  Of all the plastic, they might be the easiest to try and request going forward.  The etched parts however may not be very easy to obtain.  What you're really looking at is taking apart a RTR model and replacing what you need, which, at that point, isn't any easier than converting a Kato unit.

Ummm, what am I missing? The new ATSF Kato F3 A unit looks just like the ones I bought 12 years ago... Two portholes, high fans, dynamic brake slits, except for the dual headlights. What's modified...?
Thanks, Otto

The 'new' F3 doesn't have the Chicken Wire on the sides but rather the Stainless Grille like the F7.  That's about it.  I don't know what's up with the DB panel in the artwork.  I would imagine it will still be the regular F3 vents (did SF have units w/o DBs?).

Here's the artwork.





Jason
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 12:28:28 AM by wcfn100 »

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 01:40:49 PM »
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Jason, I missed that, I was looking at Kato's current production photo; thanks for the rendering.
First, in answer to your question, all Santa Fe F units had dynamics, and the high fan version of the F3 should have BD "slits"; the rendering doesn't show them but I assume they are there like on the previous run.

Second, one could write a book on Santa Fe F unit variations through time, and this is not the place.
But, of all the Santa Fe Warbonnet F3/F7's, and there were 88 passenger and dual service "sets" mostly in ABBA and ABB configurations, only FIVE ABBA sets, units 16 through 21 had the high fan/ DB slit combination. These initially came with chicken wire and three portholes and single headlight, were quickly equipped with a second headlight housing to accommodate the Mars light. Next the middle porthole was removed and chicken wire area reduced, and later, the grilles were added, per the most recent model. These FIVE sets all had the "long" Warbonnet wrapping around the middle porthole, again as on the Kato model; all others had the standard warbonnet. So with some minor discrepancies, Kato has given us every version of the first five Santa Fe F3's.

Kato F7's are a good representation of units 37-41 and early 300's. What we need is the late F3, the fifteen sets numbered 22-36. These looked very much like Kato F7's with low fans, but instead of the 36" DB fan had DB "slits" like the older F3's. In other words, I would have preferred the late F3 and got all excited when they announced it; instead we are getting another early F3, as modified later with grilles.

Still, as a Santa Fe modeler, I appreciate Kato's efforts...
Regards, Otto K.

wcfn100

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2013, 01:56:47 PM »
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I would have preferred the late F3

That's what I need as well for the CGW because most of the Ph IIs were traded into EMD in the 60's for GP30's and SD40s.

Still, as a Santa Fe modeler, I appreciate Kato's efforts...

So what do you think of the blue cigar band on the Yellow Bonnet?  Did that bright of blue really exist?


Jason

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2013, 02:14:32 PM »
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Well, yeah.

Jason

I was just calling it what Kato does.  EMD F3 Late Type Locomotive. So maybe yell at them.
Brian

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Mark5

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 02:45:55 PM »
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I bet they don't fix the mold lines on the nose. :trollface:

(easy to fix if you're gonna strip it anyway)

Mark

Cajonpassfan

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 02:46:32 PM »
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Jason, I don't know about the yellow bonnets...I model an earlier era. Oh, and my math was wrong, there were SIX sets, not five, numbered 16-21. Duh!
Have fun, Otto K.

wcfn100

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Re: Kato Mid Model Changes...Could we see....
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 02:51:06 PM »
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I was just calling it what Kato does.  EMD F3 Late Type Locomotive. So maybe yell at them.

I do see where they say "F3 Late Type Locomotive", you used the term late model.  In the item description they call it a "Late Santa Fe War Bonnet" which is probably the best way to put it.

Regardless of who said what, it needs to be clear that these aren't a late model F3 locomotives as it could cause confusion going forward.  I could tell someone that a prototype is a Late F3 and they might think the Kato model is what I'm talking about.
 

Jason
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 02:59:05 PM by wcfn100 »