Author Topic: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat  (Read 1626 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

BCR751

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 638
  • A.K.A. Mr. Goodenough
  • Respect: +63
Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« on: February 02, 2013, 09:37:52 PM »
0
Anyone successfully removed the carbody from the underframe on a Red Caboose centerbeam flat?  I tried today and found that the carbody is glued on with some very strong adhesive.  I gave up fearing I was going to wreck the car.  I need to remove the carbody to do some detail work on the car.

Doug

GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5483
  • Respect: +623
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2013, 02:21:56 AM »
0
Yes, I have done that to cut and move the bolster further out on the open and single panel models, as discussed here.  I don't recall it being very difficult.  The underframe was attached to two pins, one of which can be seen near the cutout in this shot:



It may be that the new run from IM have the under-frames glued in place, as well as the pin.  I have not encountered that myself though.

-Gary

BCR751

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 638
  • A.K.A. Mr. Goodenough
  • Respect: +63
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2013, 01:18:15 PM »
0
I managed to get a small screwdiver blade under one end of the underframe.  As I started to pry it up, with great difficulty, I looked under it and saw it was stuck to the carbody with some sort of adhesive.  I was only able to get it up about 1/8" before I noticed the carbody was starting to bend so I stopped.  I was thinking of trying to slide a thin, sharp blade of some sort down the length of the underframe to cut through the adhesive but if there are pins in there as well, I doubt that would work.  This is definitely a head scratcher.

Doug

Catt

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1721
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +28
    • Boylerwerx
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2013, 04:56:48 PM »
0
Put the car in your freezer overnight then try prying it apart while it is still cold.The shear strength of most adhesives goes down conciderably when it is frozen.

I would also suggest using the widest blade you can get in there.
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
Sole owner of the
Grande Valley Railway
100% Michigan made

BCR751

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 638
  • A.K.A. Mr. Goodenough
  • Respect: +63
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2013, 11:48:34 AM »
0
Direct from InterMountain:

I spoke with our Red Caboose liaison regarding your question.

Fundamentally, that part is glued in place and is not designed to be removed.  Sometimes you can use very small amounts plastic adhesives to cause it to come loose but the risk is VERY high that it could create other damage.

Sorry we couldn't be of more help.

Thank you for your support of InterMountain Railway Company products.

Richard Frazier
InterMountain Railway Company

So, there you have it.  Don't even bother trying <g>.

Doug


GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5483
  • Respect: +623
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2013, 12:51:30 PM »
0
That's discouraging, especially since the one-size-fits-all under-frame does not have the correct wheelbase for the open and single panel cars, and the only way to correct it is to remove the under-frame.  I modified 4 or 5 of them in the past, and don't recall that it was a struggle, but it was a few years ago now - perhaps I erased that from my memory.  I still have a lot of cars to convert, so I'll report back when I try another one.

TrainReign

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Respect: 0
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2013, 01:08:32 PM »
0
I wouldn't bother to modify the RC centerbeams.

I believe the body is too tall and that's above and beyond the high bolster height.

Anybody else find the body to be stretched too high??

GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5483
  • Respect: +623
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2013, 01:26:54 PM »
0
They definitely ride too high, and look a bit dorky, as delivered. The open and single panel cars also have incorrect end bulkhead and top detailing.  But there are no alternatives for this ubiquitous car.  With wheelbase correction, BLMA trucks, and a few simple bulkhead mods, they can be made decent.  Here is what I do to mine.  The top of the car should be at about the same height as a covered hopper top.  The modified car is close (left - modified, right - stock):



-gfh

P.S. Catt's freezing trick is worth a try.

Robbman

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3007
  • Respect: +16
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2013, 02:01:56 PM »
0
I'll have to get a Trinity GA up for you guys to utilize...

Top of side sill to top of end top plate (i.e, the top of the bulkhead, not counting the center partition) 11' 7-3/8"
End top plate to top of rail 15' 0-15/16"

Max height, includes the center partition, 15' 5-9/16"

mcjaco

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1663
  • Respect: +88
    • MiNi Modutrak
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2013, 02:18:59 PM »
0
I didn't have any issue removing mine, but I think I bought them ten years ago, so I'd bet it's the newer runs.

I was just trying to find that thread on correcting the wheel base so this was perfectly timed!

mdeberg

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 48
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: 0
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2013, 02:25:18 PM »
0
Gary,  Very cool.  Love your changes to improve the ride height, look and operation of the cars.  I'm going to give your suggestions a try. 

They definitely ride too high, and look a bit dorky, as delivered. The open and single panel cars also have incorrect end bulkhead and top detailing.  But there are no alternatives for this ubiquitous car.  With wheelbase correction, BLMA trucks, and a few simple bulkhead mods, they can be made decent.  Here is what I do to mine.  The top of the car should be at about the same height as a covered hopper top.  The modified car is close (left - modified, right - stock):



-gfh

P.S. Catt's freezing trick is worth a try.
Thank you,
Mike DeBerg

wazzou

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 4356
  • #GoCougs
  • Respect: +456
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2013, 06:00:44 PM »
0


-Gary


Gary -
Isn't the bolster supposed to line up with the heavy gusseting between the 2nd and 3rd winches on the car side in your shot? 
I guess that would be the trade-off visually, correct truck spacing or trucks that line-up with cast detail.
Bryan

Member of NPRHA, Modeling Committee Member
http://www.nprha.org/
Member of MRHA

GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5483
  • Respect: +623
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2013, 02:33:16 AM »
0
I'll have to get a Trinity GA up for you guys to utilize...

Top of side sill to top of end top plate (i.e, the top of the bulkhead, not counting the center partition) 11' 7-3/8"
End top plate to top of rail 15' 0-15/16"

Max height, includes the center partition, 15' 5-9/16"

Thanks for this Robbman.  I'm not sure I have the nomenclature right, but I interpret top of the side sill to mean the floor deck, not counting the slight raised floor ribs on this model.  The model's dimension from the floor deck to the top plate of the bulkhead is 11'4", so a few inches short (unless I'm misinterpreting side sill).  If you count the extended flange (which is not correct for the open- and single-panel centerbeams, but is correct for the other styles) the height is 12'1".  By the way, here's a shot showing cars with and without the bulkhead flange cut off (but before I switched to BLMA trucks):



On a stock model, the top of the center partition and top of the bulkhead flange are both 16'7" above the railhead, so about 13" too high.   On the model equipped with BLMA trucks, the corresponding dimensions are 16'0" and 15'6", so about 6" too high.  I guess this is attributable to ride height, but with the BLMA trucks, it's not especially obvious (BLMA-equipped on the left):



Going much lower with the ride height would be dicey because the truck sideframes are just below the bottom of the side sill as is, and they would start to foul without milling the inside of the sill, and some of the plastic floor.  The prototype cars don't sit much lower over the trucks:

http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=7957

I'm happy enough with the mods I've made to declare victory and move on.  FWIW, trimming the bulkhead flange goes a long way towards making these appear lower slung because that's where the comparison with other cars in a train is most apparent.

Bryan, I completely agree that the gusseting is no longer lined up.  In my calculus, the short wheelbase was a more obvious flaw that was relatively simple to fix, whereas the misaligned gusseting was easy (for me) to ignore.  :)

Cheers,
Gary

P.S. I'll try removing the underframe on a new release soon.  I'll be bummed if that becomes an ordeal...

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7133
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +1103
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2013, 10:52:38 AM »
0
Castings of the current gusset, or a Shapeways gusset, would make it easy to remove the molded-on gussets and put new ones in a more correct location.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


BCR751

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 638
  • A.K.A. Mr. Goodenough
  • Respect: +63
Re: Carbody Removal - Red Caboose Centerbeam Flat
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2013, 12:22:51 PM »
0
Gary,

If you are successful in removing the underframe, please post your results here.  I have a number of these cars I need to fix.  And, they are all the newer versions so that may account for the glued-on underframe.

Doug