Best Of ACL MEC low side gondola , interest ? ESM please read .

[bbussey]

No model-specific update this weekend, as the rapid prototype pilot model was shipped Thursday but did not arrive today March 5.  Watch for an update (with photos) early late this coming week.

Work done this week - procuring quotes and delivery schedules from BLMA and MTL on the OEM parts.  This includes pricing/delivery on two sets of stirrups and both brakewheel styles - in black, and in MEC Pine Green, which is pretty cool.  The pricing was so favorable that all the kits will contain both the black and the green sets of parts.

Total hours invested to date:  18½
Total material cost expended to date:  $100

[skm]

This is so great Brian!

Would you mind elaborating on the process of purchasing OEM parts?
I've always been interested on how the different manufacturers work together behind the scenes...

[bbussey]

Scott,

There isn't much to elaborate on.  Manufacturers extend the courtesy of allowing other established manufacturers to purchase components.  Even with the addition of the "start ups" over the past decade or so, the group is fairly small.  It's akin to the ownership group of the NFL or MLB, where they all know and communicate with each other.  Plus, with the N Scale Enthusiast board of directors populated with principals/executives of various manufacturers ever since Wick Brandon died there is regular interaction, particularly in convention and major trade show settings.  So to request parts and/or services, it's simply a matter of phoning or emailing one of the principals/executives.

The gondola test model is arriving tomorrow - so there will be a new installment with photos regarding performance testing, most likely on Sunday.

[skm]

Thanks for the reply Brian.
I guess I thought it would be a more involved process regarding trademark and proprietary information sharing.

Looking forward to the next installment...

[bbussey]

Thanks for the reply Brian.
I guess I thought it would be a more involved process regarding trademark and proprietary information sharing.

Looking forward to the next installment...

Well, you would be purchasing finished components for use in a product, not the engineering drawings to replicate the components.  For example, with all of the rolling stock now factory-equipped with MTL or Accu-Mate couplers, the manufacturers are not tooling "knock-offs" and violating copyright laws.  They are purchasing components in bulk from MTL and Atlas respectively.  And in regard to the Accu-Mate, the design of which is owned by Accu-Rail, Atlas is licensing the rights to manufacture that design from Accu-Rail.

Selling of components to other entities is free income, free exposure, and helps amortize tooling costs.  MTL gives a 5% discount off the OEM price of its couplers product line if the purchasing manufacturer agrees to put the gold foil stickers on the package as incentive to purchase.  And sometimes it's not just components, but a service that the manufacturer can provide more economically than other sources because it's in-house or high-volume or both.  ESM uses or has used components and/or services from American Limited, Atlas, BLMA, Con-Cor, DVFC, InterMountain, Life-Like, Model Power, Microscale, Micro-Trains, Precision Masters, RivaRossi, Roco, San Juan Car and Walthers.  Even this little gondola project will require components/services from BLMA, Microscale and Micro-Trains, as well as other contractors.  So it's good business practice to bulk sell components/services to fellow manufacturers.

[bbussey]

A short update, the first part of Session #7.

The pilot model arrived today.  This prototype really is low-sided.  The N scale model is tiny.





One issue of note - also included in this delivery of rapid prototype parts was a redo of one of the G32C gondola sides, which has full rivet relief along the support posts (the master was re-rendered as a flat "kit" in order to eliminate the stepping issues evident in the pilot models on display at the Amherst show).  The relief is so sharp that the flanges with rivets on the low-side gondola will be rendered as part of the rapid prototype master, rather than with the etched brass insets.  That will save a good chunk of time regarding the assembly of the casting master.
   
Into the heptane bath for at least a day, which in this case will be Bestine in a sealed glass jar.  Performance testing this coming Sunday, as well as verification of the fitting of OEM components.

Total hours invested to date:  19
Total material cost expended to date:  $100

[Scottl]

Holy cow.  This is a great thread to watch.

[bbussey]

Had to run out to a client before getting to put the part in the soup, then I had to find where I put the sample MTL components.  I realized it would be wise to verify the OEM components fit now before the soaking.  So here's a quick pic with the diecast fishbelly sill in place.



There isn't much play, but there should be enough to absorb the 0.75% shrinkage from the mold and casting process.

[skm]

<snip> The relief is so sharp that the flanges with rivets on the low-side gondola will be rendered as part of the rapid prototype master, rather than with the etched brass insets.  </snip>

Does that mean you now have to adjust the sides to compensate for the loss of the thickness of the brass insets?
I feel I'm too stoopid to quite grasp/visualize what the insets were originally intended to produce, which is sad because I'm in the business of visualizing 3D from drawings....

I hope my questions are not causing any grief, but I find this process and this thread irresistable. 

[bbussey]

No grief caused.

The thickness of the flanges will have to be restored back to what they originally were.  This is a one-step task, accomplished by "suppressing" that particular command in the building of the solid model, which will take no more than a few seconds.  The new step that will take a little time is adding all the rivets to the rib flanges on the sides and ends.

Rapid prototyping on the ProJet is excellent at creating high-relief detail, but only adequate in creating large flat areas - which becomes problematic in the smaller scales.  Because the ProJet does not produce the finish we would like, the alternate solution is to use brass or stainless steel sheeting for the flat smooth areas.  So that the dimensions of the model remain the same, you must remove the area of the rapid prototype where the metal sheet will go.   Think of it like the repaving of a highway, where road height is important regarding overpass clearance.  The highway surface is first scraped, then the new layer of asphalt is applied, leaving the overpass clearance the same as it was before the repaving.   If you go back to the images on page 8, the yellow represents the surfaces of the rapid prototype model that are being "scraped" so that etched brass pieces can be cemented into those inset areas (the new pavement) to return the model to its original dimensions, but with flat panels that are perfectly smooth.  And polishing the brass areas before making the rubber molds creates surfaces as smooth as glass, which then are replicated in the resin castings.

[bbussey]

Session #7, the back end.

A twenty-hour soak in heptane was enough to remove all the residue wax.  The OEM components are fitted to the model.



Some minor tweaks are needed in the areas where the stirrups are mounted - nothing major, but still enough to require another prototype for verification.  As with the G32C, the hole in the MTL lid must be recessed further with a #16 X-Acto blade to make sure the screw sits flush and clears the front axle.



The model before performance testing.  Ride height and coupler height are satisfactory.





An XIH weight was added to the model for the testing.  The model was included in the following consist and run on Atlas code 65 True Track with 11" radius curves and two turnouts:

• two Kato F40PH units
• one Kato fluted baggage
• two Kato Amfleet II coaches
• one Centralia fluted coach
• one Kato Amfleet II lounge
• one Kato fluted sleeper
• one ESM XIH boxcar
• one low side gondola prototype
• one ESM G32C gondola
• one Life-Like NE caboose

The testing consisted of the following:

• consist pulled for 20 laps
• consist run in reverse for 20 laps
• Diesels moved to rear of train, consist pulled in reverse for 20 laps
• Diesels still at rear of train, consist pushed for 5 laps

The prototype performed well, both in regular operation and during the load testing (pushing and pulling the full load of the passenger consist).  So design-wise, the model is sound.  Another prototype will be commissioned in a couple of weeks to confirm that the stirrup mounts are correct.

In the mean time, the post flanges have been restored to the solid model and the rivets added.





And, since the flat model is derived from the initial model, the changes immediately are reflected there as well.



Time for a short brake until April.  The process will now slow down for the next few stages.  Next month will be another rapid prototype pilot model to confirm the stirrup mounts are correct, followed by the rapid prototype flat model and the etched overlays.

Total hours invested to date:  22
Total material cost expended to date:  $100

[wazzou]

Awesome!

[up1950s]

You are an N Scale birth canal . 

[Chris333]

You are an N Scale birth canal . 

lol   

[PJPickard]

This looks great! So just to clarify the RP of the projet is good enough for the rivet details? What is your rivet diam?

DO you think the Projet can do the grooves in car siding?

I am still working on my caboose and to test parts I am using Shapeways FUD, maybe not the best approach but it is cheap anyway.

Thanks for these updates, they are really appreciated!

Paul