Author Topic: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train  (Read 5655 times)

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Flagler

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Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« on: January 09, 2013, 09:29:43 AM »
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I Just got a nice 4 pak of PFE cars, Where would these be found on a passenger train?

Bob Bufkin

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 09:35:50 AM »
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Not an expert but doubt if they would be on passenger trains much.  You have got all the hoses and electrical connections for passenger cars and far as I know these reefers did not have those attachment.  If they were used, it would have to be on the rear of the train.

Flagler

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 10:42:04 AM »
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These cars are PFE Express refers.They would be found on passenger trains.I know they would be located on the front end but wanted to know what would be most often as far as postion.


Dave V

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 10:52:00 AM »
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Extreme head end with any other express cars and ahead of RPO and baggage I believe...  Not 100%, but that's where Pennsy put its RB50 express reefers.
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jmlaboda

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2013, 11:42:54 AM »
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What four pack do you have?  If it is express reefers they would be on the head-end, just as Dave stated... if they are the boxcar type they would not have seen use on passenger trains, especially since SP and UP ran dedicated PFE trains on many lines.

PFE use to have passenger compatible (having steam and signal lines, no electricals involved) 50' reefers in the 500 - 799 series and 40' cars in the 901 - 950 series but I have never seen a shot of any of these reefers so I really can't say what style or design they were.  By 1954 there were only 137 cars left in the 500-series while the complete 901-series (50 cars) were still on the roster.  Hopefully someone else will have more info on these cars... sure would be good to be able to actually nail down what type of cars these really were.

jmlaboda

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« Last Edit: January 09, 2013, 11:49:04 AM by jmlaboda »

sirenwerks

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2013, 11:50:37 AM »
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I believe it depends on the road, train and era.  All-baggage trains could have them showing up anywhere and, even on passenger trains, depending on road and era they could show up at the head end or back end, if they needed to get cut out enroute - a practice that seemed to grow in prominence the closer you get to Amtrak.  The more important the train, the less likely there would be mid-point set-outs and the less likely the cars would show up on the back end.  Off the top of my head, the Milwaukee and NYC engaged in such practice.  No?
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Flagler

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2013, 01:06:35 PM »
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They are the 901-950 Series ,40 ft .Special run by Microtrains for George Hollwedel
What four pack do you have?  If it is express reefers they would be on the head-end, just as Dave stated... if they are the boxcar type they would not have seen use on passenger trains, especially since SP and UP ran dedicated PFE trains on many lines.

PFE use to have passenger compatible (having steam and signal lines, no electricals involved) 50' reefers in the 500 - 799 series and 40' cars in the 901 - 950 series but I have never seen a shot of any of these reefers so I really can't say what style or design they were.  By 1954 there were only 137 cars left in the 500-series while the complete 901-series (50 cars) were still on the roster.  Hopefully someone else will have more info on these cars... sure would be good to be able to actually nail down what type of cars these really were.

hpwrick

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2013, 02:14:48 PM »
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You may or may not find this helpful.    Scroll down through the information shared and you will find some REA reefers mixed in to the passenger consist.    Presented by Jim Landcaster.   You may want to read the narrative as some interesting things about passenger train operations are mentioned.

http://coastdaylight.com/sb/san_berdoo_64.html

I hope that helps.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2013, 02:22:15 PM by hpwrick »
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Mike Madonna

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2013, 10:02:04 PM »
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These are models of PFE's BR-4010 40' Steel reefers. They were at the head end of most of SP's mail trains (ie. train 71/72 "Coast Mail").
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Cajonpassfan

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2013, 11:21:33 PM »
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And they could also be found mixed in with other express reefers and head end cars on Santa Fe's secondary trains like the Grand Canyon Limited and of course  Number 7 and 8, the Fast Mail and Express between LA and Chicago during the "classic" transition era. Eastbound, they'd be loaded with high value produce like strawberries, but westbound I understand they could and did bring other cargo, like magazines ( which were published an printed on the east coast  at the time). Interesting modeling possibilities...
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jmlaboda

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 12:36:43 PM »
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I have found information on the PFE 901-series reefers and am pleased to say that MT has already produced some.  The cars were built from R-40-10 cars, overhauled in 1951 and 1952 and assigned to express service in 1953.  All were reclassified BR-50-10 with PFE 901 - 925 were given Chrysler FR-5-D trucks while the 926 - 950 series received Symington Gould Type XL truciks (are there trucks like either of these available in N-scale?).  The link below is for a shot of the four-car set produced by MT...
http://www.micro-trains.com/Cuts/05990530_500px.jpg

Definitely beautiful cars!!!  Now if only I could find some prototype photos on the web of these cars...

randgust

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 01:30:27 PM »
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Interesting.   Any information as to how icing was handled, or were runs generally short enough end-to-end that they didn't have to be re-iced in route?

Guess I never really thought of this before, but yeah, how'd they do that?  You never see express reefers at icing docks in a passenger train.

hpwrick

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2013, 01:32:31 PM »
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Jerry,
And of course everyone tuned in here.... :lol:

You presented this link:  ""The link below is for a shot of the four-car set produced by MT...
http://www.micro-trains.com/Cuts/05990530_500px.jpg""    I don't remember these operating on the SP.  But... that's not to say they didn't.   Looking at them they don't have the passenger trucks and are a bit new for this particular paint scheme.

I've looked for pictures of the prototypes and haven't found anything closer then the REA rebuilds.    Something tells me we may have  to buy a book.   Oh well it is what it is.

Bachmann produced some freight green, PFE reefers but they are of the automated era, compressors and freezer types.    To my knowledge all of those ended up in the orange paint scheme.   None of those ever ran on the front end of a passenger train.   They got their own trains Ie.  SP's Salad Express.   I have a bunch of them and not sure what to do with them.    One of those gifts from someone that thinks they are the family jewels and well...they aren't.

Randqust,

Looks like I caught up with you.   Wondered where you went.   Grin!    Sorry, back to my old tricks but you might appreciate this.

I had a uncle that worked the ice deck in the AT&SF Barstow Yard, what he described:   A switch engine and crew would run down to the passenger train, cut off the reefers, run them to the ice deck, he would load the ice in to the hatches and they would repeat the move back to the passenger train.   The  passenger cars in train would recieve full service, with fresh locomotives tied to the front end.   Once a air check was made, the conductor waived the highball, with two hoots of the diesel horns or two shorts from the stoves whistle and the train would depart.   

Does that help?  Wish I could be of more help with photo's and the like, reviewing my resources as you read this.

Here's one resource:   http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/reefer/index.htm    Here there is a refrence to some older wood sheathed PFE's but no pictures.

From the Jack Whitmeyer collection, here is a Santa Fe, REA Reefer...rebuild:  http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/sfr48.jpg
One more:   http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?march00/03-06-00/REa-ExpressCar-4037-atChicago-Oct67.jpg
You might appreciate this one.    Loading mail for the Christmas rush, AT&SF Passenger Station, San Bernardino, Ca.  http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/sfr34.jpg
Lastly this box car is marked by the author as a Express Reefer note the hoses and passenger trucks:  http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/sfr53.jpg
Too see more of Jack's photo's:   http://www.snowcrest.net/photobob/collectionindex.html

My searches have had to do with Santa Fe and REA.    When it comes to PFE, I do know Southern Pacific ran those on the front of their mail express trains and depending on the purpose they served on the front end of a few milk trains.   Milk train, being a figure of speech indicating they stopped at every station along the way.   They weren't (were not) orange in color but rather a type of solid pullman green with a round roof.  As Jerry illustrated in two resources.   Other SP and UP express box cars did get a  two tone gray, paint scheme.

One last shot here and this is for fun:   
   This is a video that John Acosta shot, of my versions of the Santa Fe's and Union Pacific's.... Christmas Rush, Mail Trains, shot Dec. of 2011.   Not 100% prototypical but close enough to almost match the memories I have of these trains as they came rolling through Barstow, Ca.    Feel free to critique the trains...I know you will.   LOL :D

I lied!  One more fun resource for you to check out.   Presented by Jim Landcaster.      http://coastdaylight.com/2005_holiday_photos.html   
Here you will find some other modeled versions of the SP Mail Trains.     

Does this answer the OP's original question?   That's the best I can do at this time.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 03:47:22 PM by hpwrick »
BarstowRick aka RickH

If you look long enough, you are bound to find a prototype for what you desire to model on your layout.

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Flagler

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Re: Pacific Fruit Express, location on passenger train
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2013, 03:12:41 PM »
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Great stuff,more then I had hoped for

             Thanks everyone