The border of Insanity... Welsh Narrow Gauge in N-4mm

[VonRyan]

Well, even though i don't drink (not that i would since the law would be on me), I've decided that Nn3 is not suitable for modelling the 2ft 3in gauge railways of northern Wales. I've decided to go with 4mm gauge (exactly 2ft in 2FS) using code 40 rail (unless suitable code 30 with profile can be found... then perhaps) The marklin chassis i have (sans two needed gears) will be thinned down and the wheels compressed to work on 4mm gauge. I might even resort to utilizing the ultra-tiny 1.5v motor and make a small wood-side steam-tram to be the first engine.
Of course i have no clue what i'd need to make a suitable throttle to get variable speed out of the motor without just using a resistor.
(in other words the throttle would be powered by a AA battery... or two AAA batteries in separate holders with a small slide switch to allow switching between the two as one dies.)

I just figured that i'd let everyone know that i'm not settling for less than the best.

Now, if someone could tell me how to go about drawing patterns for brass etching... And how to build the throttle to power the madness.

-Cody F.

-Cody F.

[JoeD]

That's a fairly involved process that requires some trial and error, but I know that a number of folks on this forum do it routinely.  Also, there's a Yahoo group on photoetching that is a good resource as well.

Good luck, the Welsh shortlines are very interesting.

Cheers

Joe

[GimpLizard]

Mr. VonRyan....

Rather than learning phto-etching, me thinks that your time would be better spent learning micro-quilting. So you can pad the cell you;re headed for. 

[Sokramiketes]

http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/HowToPapers.shtm

Scroll down to the series on metal etching.

[randgust]

I've tried a lot of things, and subscribe to the Edison approach in general (head-down repeated expirimentation and elimination of alternatives).  That's led to a lot of successes and some spectacular failures.

After I learned to resin-cast in volume I decided to learn to photoetch; got a micro-mark system.   Chris333 is really good at it and walked me through it.  You need to be much better at CAD than I am, I freely admit that.   Given help with the CAD work, I was able to print off the overlays, get the etchant to adhere, invented a new etchant ciculator system, and actually made usable parts for models.    I was trying to learn etching to make my own kit parts, and this system is particularly poorly suited to that - too small and slow.   But it does work.   

It's probably the messiest, most toxic, and least enjoyable thing I've ever done in modeling.   I finally decided that if I was going to make that much of a mess to try to make something to sell (rather than something for my own layout), drugs were a better alternative than etched parts, about the same toxic footprint.   I'm not doing drugs either, but this was one time where I was sorely tempted as the technology seemed similar and the financial yield better.

I decided to concentrate my efforts on finding a job shop to produce etched parts; that worked MUCH better.   Now that I understand how they are made I understand perfectly well how to design parts.   Great learning experience.   The quality of what can be done is simply spectacular.   Bob Knight and Craig Martyn are my heroes.

If you're good in CAD and are making five or fewer of something, may work.    More than that and I'd highly recommend you work with a professional etcher.  If you make it really good you'll have a waiting list of people that want it anyway.   After you've amortized your artwork and setup costs its one of those processes that works well financially,  and it's quite possible to make money if you don't have to many redo sessions requiring the artwork and proofs to be repeatedly redone.    I'm concentrating my efforts now to try to improve my CAD skills rather than dress in plastic bags, work in the dark, and try to figure out how to safely and legally dispose of spent Ferric Chrloride.

[VonRyan]

Hmm I though drawing for photoetching only involved a marker and clear plastic sheet... not CAD programs...
That shall come later though. First is the loco, then track (a loop) and then some slate wagons...

Etching will probably only be for a gun powder wagon, some vans and three coaches. the slate wagons can be made from wood or styrene.

Hopefully i can find some small Z scale wheelsets that don't have fixed axles so they can be compressed to fit the 4mm gauge track.

Of course i still have to solve the problem of the 1.5v throttle...

-Cody F.

[avel]

I say good luck and don't let any failures get you down (well permanently), it's the only way to learn. Also you should try some of that code 30 rectangular rail RLW offers. I have some still coiled up. I think after painting you'll hardly even notice that its just a bar.

[Sokramiketes]

Hmm I though drawing for photoetching only involved a marker and clear plastic sheet... not CAD programs...

-Cody F.

Old school!  Yeah, you can do artwork by hand.  That's how everything was drawn for etching before computers.  You want to draw it at 2x or 4x though, and have it photo reduced.  Some etching houses can still do this. 

[Chris333]

Use a ruler 

[Sokramiketes]

Use a ruler 

As my old drafting teacher used to say, "The only Ruler in here is ME.  It's called a Scale."

[VonRyan]

Use a ruler 

Well, I take a ruler or "scale" for granted I suppose.

Why learn a CAD program when drawing it out by hand is cheaper.

I figure whatever i draw out will be first on graph paper, and then if needed onto clear sheet.

As is, i'm lucky to where i have access to a milling machine to get the marklin chassis to become smaller and thinner. Then comes adding the quite TINY motor and adding the worm gear. Plus scratchbuilding a wood body for the little tram that it shall be. After that it is just a matter of making some track and then figuring out the throttle.

-Cody F.

[mcjaco]

As my old drafting teacher used to say, "The only Ruler in here is ME.  It's called a Scale."

Do they teach that line in Draft Professorship 101?  Mine said the same thing.   

[Chris333]

Why learn a CAD program when drawing it out by hand is cheaper.

Could be done (I guess) but I would hate to try it:

[peteski]

Hmm I though drawing for photoetching only involved a marker and clear plastic sheet... not CAD programs...

-Cody F.

Cody, that really is old-school!
But for making a decent looking N scale model, that might be too primitive.  I mean, drawing directly on a transparency. It would be very difficult to draw something like narrow-gauge N scale car photo-mask in 1:1 scale, directly on a transparency.

To repeat what has already been mentioned, the best way to do this is to draw the artwork larger (I used to do that at 400%) using black ink on a white piece of paper, then have it photographically reduced to 1:1 scale onto a clear high-contrast Black/White film.

But even at 400%, doing this by hand is so tedious. Computers make this task so much easier.  My recommendation would be to find a free vector-based drawing program (or even pick up an older version of something like Corel Draw, for 20-30 dollars) and start using it.   You're young guy who probably has been using computers since you were a baby.   Using a drawing program will probably be a second nature to you.

Vector-based graphic programs make the artwork design so much easier!  They allow for precisely sizing the artwork (and easily resizing or manipulating any objects), and they make drawing repeating patterns or duplicating objects very easy.   And most of the photoetched items will have repeating patterns on them.  Then you can accurately print the artwork at any scale (directly on a transparency if you wish).

You might also read through the info in https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=28254.0

[Chris333]

You can print direct to the transparencies:
https://picasaweb.google.com/ErieChris333/Etching