Classic Metal Works vehicles - here is your chance to make a difference

[peteski]

Solar tint was on 90% of all vehicles be the early 80's. It has more to do with a change in the plastic laminents than a "feature". I think the tint was to combat UV degradation of the laminent itself, along with headrests and dashboard material.

I think it may be required with anything equipped with an airbag.

Only the windshields are laminated (there is a layer of soft plastic film sandwiched between 2 layers of tempered glass.  Side and rear windows are non-laminated tempered glass (designed to shatter into small pieces).  Yet the tinting is done to all the automotive glass in a vehicle (not just the laminated windshield).  The tempered glass is simply made from a glass with some sort of additive (impurity or tint) which gives it a greenish hue (sort of like the glass in glass Coke bottles). The tinting comes in a variety of colors. Some expensive cars have blue or even brown tinting. Then of course most contemporary SUVs, minivans and even some sedans have dark smoke or even mirror tinting on all the glass in the back of the driver in their factory-installed glass. That is what makes me think that this is more of a cosmetic feature rather than a UV protection.

[peteski]

I'd like to see someone make vehicle kits in the same manner as the Wiking/Busch/Kato cars & trucks. Simply a body shell, chassis w/cast-on wheels, & clear block windows. Like the Wiking Chevelle. Or the Busch 50's era Buick. (Though Busch does have seperate, rolling wheels. But do we really need that?) These look quite good once they're painted & detailed a bit.

If the kits were left "undecorated", I would think this could be done rather inexpensively. Mold the bodies/chassis out of a neutral gray. Like undercarated loco shells. And leave the rest to us. Trouble is, most manufacturers are geared more towards the RTR crowd. So I'm not holding my breath.

Oh, and one quick, final note. I'd also suggest doing the windows in a very light blue/green tint. I don't think auto manufacturers have used truly clear glass in decades. (Does anyone know for sure when tinting became common?)

I also prefer "glass" see-through windows in model cars. Doesn't matter if it is clear resin, plastic block or a thinly molded windshield.

But even Wiking and Herpa have stopped using glass blocks for windows and they now have thinly molded windows with full interiors.  Only the reissues of the old models still have the glass blocks.  However this new feature also greatly increased their price to the pint of being unreasonable when buying them in quantities needed for a layour.  Spending $12 for a nice Wiking model of a VW Tiguan or a Herpa Mini Cooper is IMO a bit much.

I agree about the rolling wheels - totally un-needed!  But then again, those wheels look better than ones molded along with the chassis.  I think that a compromise would be something that Kato does on their Toyotas: Wheels and axle molded as a single piece (sort of like a Micro Trains wheel set). Those are cheap to make and assemble but they still look better than a single piece chassis with wheels molded in.

I don't ever expect to see any undecorated or unassembled vehicle kits. Modelers who are willing to decorate their vehicles are a *VERY* small minority.

[sirenwerks]

Rolling wheels aren't a necessity for me either, but I would ask for the ability to easily be able to aim front wheels.  It always ticks me when I see a finely detailed scene in a great photo and the vehicles are obviously positioned as if making a turn but the wheels are pointing straight.  I know it's nitpicky, but I catch it every time and I slap my forehead.  Wheels mounted on a wire axle, bendable, would be perfect.

[GimpLizard]

I don't ever expect to see any undecorated or unassembled vehicle kits. Modelers who are willing to decorate their vehicles are a *VERY* small minority.

You're right about that, Peteski. Decorating highway vehicles can be rahter tedious work. Most modelers either don't blieve it's worth the trouble, or feel they don't have the talent for detailing something as small as N-scale vheicles.

I'm not all that great at it myself. But I really think the majority of RTR cars/trucks detract from, what is otherwise, a supurb scene. I've seen are some great layouts, with exceptional scenery, spoiled by automobiles that are right out of the box. I'm thinking particularly of the early Wiking cars. A single body color. Now I don't think they need to be finely detailed, with painted windowframes, door handles, etc. But at least an accurate body color with some painted head & tail lights, along with tires & wheel covers. And maybe a little weathering. It's that last minor detail that so many seem to ignore.

As for the tinted windows, peteski picked up on what I was thinking of there. The light coloration I remember from my youth, (60's & early 70's) as apposed to the RV protection coating that came along later. I'm just saying, automobile glass isn't really clear. At least not that I've ever seen. I'd just like to see the manufactures add a little color to them. Not a lot. Just a smidge.

I also agree, with sirenworks, that being abled to aim the front wheels would be a nice plus. But it's not a 'must have' for me, though.

[Dave Schneider]

I'd like to make a short detour back to the original point of this thread, which is to take a survey and make a difference. I am not sure if I really believe in that premise. I have taken a couple of these surveys from CMW over the past years. Have the results of these surveys ever been collated and presented back to the modeling community? Has CMW provided any commentary on specific issues brought up here like licensing? Maybe they have....I can't recall. I guess I get a little tired of manufacturers asking for our opinions and then never providing any feedback. CMW is not the only one to have done this. Other manufacturers have done this, some on this forum. I am not asking for inside information, but rather an feeling that there is some dialogue between manufacturer and consumer.
Best wishes, Dave

[Bremner]

Maybe they'll make something I could use if I take the survey. LOL

I'm wondering if the picture that CMW has on their site is of the HO model.

I don't think so. Reason being when I bought my all-original* 1994 Mustang GT**, it didn't have tint. It is possible it was removed, but I doubt that being a car that was bought new in Georgia (carfaxed) and being in the south it's whole life.
* it even had the original clutch at 213K miles
** 1990 was the first year of airbags in the Mustang.

um, actually, the windows on your 1994 Mustang was tinted. Most people don't realize that Ford has been tinting windows since the early 1960's as an option, and later, a standard. Sunex (tinted) glass looks clear, but if you place a plain sheet of white paper behind it, you will see a very light green tint. There also used to be a logo on the glass that said Sunex. Here is a pic of a 1965-68 Mustang quarter window with Sunex.

I spent many a year as a profesional Mustang know-it-all.....

[Bremner]

what I really want is bulk pack of random 1970's-80's cars, kind of like the blobs that Bachmann makes, but looking like real cars. I would even be happy with a car that had a 1978 Pontiac nose and a 1977 Buick rear.....

[Philip H]

what I really want is bulk pack of random 1970's-80's cars, kind of like the blobs that Bachmann makes, but looking like real cars. I would even be happy with a car that had a 1978 Pontiac nose and a 1977 Buick rear.....

+1

[peteski]

I'd like to make a short detour back to the original point of this thread, which is to take a survey and make a difference. I am not sure if I really believe in that premise. I have taken a couple of these surveys from CMW over the past years. Have the results of these surveys ever been collated and presented back to the modeling community? Has CMW provided any commentary on specific issues brought up here like licensing? Maybe they have....I can't recall. I guess I get a little tired of manufacturers asking for our opinions and then never providing any feedback. CMW is not the only one to have done this. Other manufacturers have done this, some on this forum. I am not asking for inside information, but rather an feeling that there is some dialogue between manufacturer and consumer.
Best wishes, Dave

Dave,
while I would also love for the manufacturers to provide results of their market research surveys to the modeling community, that is not the goal of their surveys and they are not under any obligation do do so.

But as far as manufacturers providing survey feedback, don't they already do it?  "How?", you ask. Well, by producing new models!  I'm sure that the survey filled by modelers has a direct way of influencing the manufacturer's decisions of which models they will produce.   So they do provide a feedback - just not in words.

As far as a direct feedback from manufacturers goes, this is something new which is only possible due to the Internet. Back in the 70s or 80s you wouldn't dream of manufacturers providing any feedback (other than by the models they produce) to the modeling community. Now thanks to the Internet forums and social networks, we sort of expect them to mingle with the unwashed masses of modelers.  And they do: we have quite a few reps of the model industry providing occasional commentary on this forum. Speaking of that, since starting this thread I had several email exchanges with Bill from CMW. He has been reading this thread and he mentioned that he might join the Railwire forum (I assume to provide some feedback you desire).

[MVW]

since starting this thread I had several email exchanges with Bill from CMW. He has been reading this thread and he mentioned that he might join the Railwire forum (I assume to provide some feedback you desire).

Sounds like you better tell him to bring a whip and a chair.

Jim

[peteski]

LOL, no kidding! 

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Yeah, we may whine. But we ARE the ones the buy a LOT of trains in BULK. I had stayed away from CMW because they simply had nothing for my era, except the 78 Impala which I have nearly a dozen sets of (purchased at full retail). It wasn't until they started dropping product on eBay and through their warehouse closeouts that I started collecting their vintage stuff, mostly with the idea to use as kit bash fodder. I now have enough tranition vehicles to populate a small 50's era layout shout I ever want to put my B&M steam to use.

I think CMW NEEDS to get away from their comford zone a bit. We need RTS buses. We need 60-90's passenger vehicles and we need more trucks.

Athearn has sold out run after run after run of Macks and fire trucks. Why? High detail, quality paint, properly sized wheels and LOTS of regional paint schemes. A generic fire chief's car is great, now were is my Boston Fire version?

Can you imagine just how many ladder trucks they could sell? Or modern home heating oil trucks. Or 80's/90's school buses. How about U-haul box trucks, Fed Ex step vans, a modern tow truck or a town car. Do they realize there has never been a RTR crown vic in N? How many YEARS of state and city runs could that bring in?

[Philip H]

Some good Seagrave or E One apapratus to go with the Athearns would be most welcome.

[Dave Schneider]

Dave,
while I would also love for the manufacturers to provide results of their market research surveys to the modeling community, that is not the goal of their surveys and they are not under any obligation do do so.

But as far as manufacturers providing survey feedback, don't they already do it?  "How?", you ask. Well, by producing new models!  I'm sure that the survey filled by modelers has a direct way of influencing the manufacturer's decisions of which models they will produce.   So they do provide a feedback - just not in words.

As far as a direct feedback from manufacturers goes, this is something new which is only possible due to the Internet. Back in the 70s or 80s you wouldn't dream of manufacturers providing any feedback (other than by the models they produce) to the modeling community. Now thanks to the Internet forums and social networks, we sort of expect them to mingle with the unwashed masses of modelers.  And they do: we have quite a few reps of the model industry providing occasional commentary on this forum. Speaking of that, since starting this thread I had several email exchanges with Bill from CMW. He has been reading this thread and he mentioned that he might join the Railwire forum (I assume to provide some feedback you desire).

Pete,

I understand and mostly agree with what you have written. Doesn't mean I can't raise the issue about whether we are really having "a chance to make a difference". A few surveys ago we had a pretty long discussion around here about the need for "blue collar" (and blue color!) vehicles that could populate parking lots, factories, bars, etc... Nothing flashy, no sports cars or muscle cars. There was a discussion about kits. There was a discussion about undecs. It would be great to know which of these ideas are good ones, and which ones are in the circular file cabinet. Same thing about licensing. Is this an issue or not? They seem to be hitting the 1940-50s pretty hard. Is this their preferred market? Yes, I could wait for 5-10 years to see what comes to pass...a short email to the addresses they collect with the survey would also work.

Just my opinion. 
Best wishes, Dave

[sirenwerks]

Dave,

I agree with your overview of the survey.  It's not a particularly well developed one in a marketing view.  Simply, the confusing way it guides HO and N scale modelers through it is a bad design and will likely lead to disqualifiable responses, though they'll never know that.  Hell, Survey Monkey allows you to do a response mechanized lead-through of questions, which would guide a survey taker to the necessary questions based on response to a question such as scale or era (how many 1990 Nashs will they manufacture?)  I would have volunteered to do it for them (ok, that's a lie, I would have charged them three card packs of their first release of 1953 Studebaker pickups).

They need to break their steam era cycle and get out of the comfort zone as you said.  The model railroad market is not the collectors market and requires a different approach.  I do tip my hat to them for trying at least, in a more professional manner than the shoot-from-the-hip some manufacturers take, or the Walthers if-it-sells-in-one-scale-it-will-sell-in-another mentality.  Heck though, there's a market for one model waiting to be had - a tractor to match the era, any era, of the Trainworx trailers that are selling like hotcakes. Hello!?