Author Topic: Best Of SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project  (Read 18106 times)

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mmagliaro

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SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« on: October 01, 2012, 04:20:34 PM »
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Hi everyone. 
Here's how my SP&S class C-1 4-4-2 Atlantic is coming along.

Pennsy folks, try not to hate me too much!  Rememember, this used to be a Black River "E6" PRR Atlantic.
I put "E6" in quotes because the proportions were never right on the Black River model for
a PRR E6.

Remember, it used to look like this:


The SP&S tender is done (except for lettering):



An inside shot of what makes this thing tick (it runs really nice!)


Here's what I've done to the engine.  We're just getting started.  So this is just basics.  Stripping, lowering, trying
to get the general proportions right:

« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 02:26:09 PM by mmagliaro »

CBQ Fan

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2012, 04:52:52 PM »
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Looking good so far!!
Brian

Way of the Zephyr

victor miranda

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2012, 05:13:55 PM »
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oh max.... :facepalm:


Dave V

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2012, 05:43:30 PM »
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GASP!

<makes the sign of the keystone>

The Pennsy gods are not happy...   :scared:

Honestly, that looks a whole lot like a Minitrix B6 shell.
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Lemosteam

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2012, 08:33:06 PM »
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oh max.... :facepalm:

But Victor, it IS an Atlantic, albeit a small one. Hee hee...  Just sayin... :D

victor miranda

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2012, 01:04:33 AM »
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Hi Lemosteam,

Max has the skills to make an entirely new loco from scratch.
ok darned close to it if his T1 is any example.
He used a very rare loco as a basis for his new project.
I have no doubt it will be a gool looking example of what he is aiming at.
the starting point was my lament.

I took a photo of three atlantics I have purchased or traded
I have two more in hiding somewhere...




mmagliaro

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2012, 02:29:08 AM »
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GASP!

<makes the sign of the keystone>

The Pennsy gods are not happy...   :scared:

Honestly, that looks a whole lot like a Minitrix B6 shell.

That's because it is!!!
I am pretty sure that Tom Jackson (Black River Loco Works) recast the Trix B6 shell in pewter
when he made these Atlantics back in the 90s.  But as for its appropriateness, here's the thing...
the SP&S 4-4-2 C-1 was a copy of the Great Northern K-1 class, and the GN was one
of the few railroads other than the PRR to use a Belpaire firebox.    So the old B6 shell turns out to be a
pretty close starting point.

The GN has a very "Pennsy" look as you'll see in the photo below.  The firebox, the headlight up on top
of the smokebox, and the Delta trailing truck are some big spotting features.  There are obviously differences,
like the cylinders being angled in...
so I've already started work on that, and I am not sure what I'm going to do about the rods
and valve gear, but my inclination from a "probability of mechanical  success" standpoint is to keep
on using the old Rivarossi rods, only file the parts to make them slim and elegant and get them closer to
the correct shape. 

The PRR boiler has a slight taper in it that the SP&S engine does not appear to have, but I can live with that.  The overall
proportions look very close, at least to me.

I have a drawing of the GN K-1.  The hard part about this is that the SP&S engine isn't EXACTLY like
the GN versions.  There are little differences in the tender, and the appliances, the cab, etc.  So I have to
go on an "average" of all the photos of the SP&S engines I can find.  I've got a couple dozen from online,
two books, and an SP&S Historical Society magazine print

Here's the actual SP&S engine (I posted this a few weeks ago, but....)


Victor, try not to take it too hard.  I know it was a rare engine.  But I've enjoyed it for some 15 years,
including all the upgrades I made to it.  Now, it's time for it to live on as something else.
After all, an Atlantic, ANY Atlantic, is still a darn pretty engine.


« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 02:26:40 PM by mmagliaro »

Lemosteam

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2012, 07:01:35 AM »
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Hi Victor, good to hear from you again.

Alas, even though Max is starting from a rare locomotive, he will end up with something more rare and noteworthy.  Unless others copy his model, there will likely not be another of it's kind on the planet, like my B8a.

As rare as it is, that model as a PRR E? was never really accurate anyway, although a nice model to own.

I can't wait to see his rendition of the cylinders and linkage and the tender looks ggreat so far.

mmagliaro

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2012, 02:15:38 AM »
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Here's a status update:

Angled the cylinders
Stripped the boiler
Put on correct walkways
Shaved and shaped the valve gear and rods.

Atlantics are cool.










« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 02:27:06 PM by mmagliaro »

Chris333

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 02:36:50 AM »
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Tilted cylinders = train porn.   :drool:

Lemosteam

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 10:07:56 AM »
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Tilted cylinders = train porn.   :drool:

+1.  Max those cylinders look great!  How did you make new slots for the crosshead slide guides?  Any way you could fit a Bachmann 4-6-0 set of valve gear and rods on there?  Those are available now and would really dress up the mech.  "I will not etch new rods...."  LOL!

mmagliaro

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 12:14:42 PM »
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+1.  Max those cylinders look great!  How did you make new slots for the crosshead slide guides?  Any way you could fit a Bachmann 4-6-0 set of valve gear and rods on there?  Those are available now and would really dress up the mech.  "I will not etch new rods...."  LOL!

Thanks!

I didn't make new slots, exactly.  Yes, as you know, there is a slot in the Rivarossi cylinders for the crosshead guide.  As part of
slimming everything down, I ground down the large rectangular "pin" on the end of the crosshead guide until it was quite small.
I had already completely filled in the big rectangular hole in the cylinder that accepts the crosshead guide, with lots of
black plastic and liquid cement.  So I just drilled a new hole and reamed it out a little with an Xacto.  Then the crosshead guide popped right in.

I toyed with a number of different valve gear bits and pieces I have, among them some spare stuff from the Walthers 0-8-0, which is
very fine.  But none of it really quite fits.  It would be even slimmer and more scale than what I could do with the old Rivarossi parts, but mechanically, it does not seem worth it to me.  Not only that, remember, we are looking at this valve gear massively magnified in these photos.  I should take a photo from about 18 inches away to show what you can actually see with your eyes.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 12:17:11 PM by mmagliaro »

Lemosteam

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 11:44:26 AM »
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Max I notice there are no steam pipes from the smokebox through the running board to the cylinders on the proto pic, there must be a steam chest under the smokebox where the pipes are hidden:



 Just wondered if you noticed.  Break out the grinder?

mmagliaro

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 03:37:35 PM »
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Max I notice there are no steam pipes from the smokebox through the running board to the cylinders on the proto pic, there must be a steam chest under the smokebox where the pipes are hidden:



 Just wondered if you noticed.  Break out the grinder?

John... you're a GENIUS!   (and now I'll tell you why).
You are correct.  Those pipes have to go.  It will be easy because the boiler is pewter.
But MORE importantly....

Confession time...

In truth, my model is several feet shorter than the SP&S prototype.  I've been wrangling over whether to let it go
or fix it somehow.  (Where "somehow" is something simpler than cutting the nose off the boiler and extending it).

The major place you notice it is that there should be a couple of feet between the front driver and the rear-most pilot truck wheel.
On my model, those are really close together (like the PRR E6).  I could pull the trailing truck and cylinders a little forward without too
much trouble.  The wheels would stick out a little more in front, but they are supposed to stick out past the nose of the boiler anyway.
But I've been poo-pooing this idea because the cylinders would no longer line up with the steam pipes on the boilers.

But now John has pointed out that there ARE NO pipes.  So I can grind those off, slide the cylinders and pilot wheels forward a little,
and "ta-da".

Wow... an extra set of eyes really helps.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2017, 02:28:08 PM by mmagliaro »

Lemosteam

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Re: SP&S 4-4-2 Atlantic project
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 03:48:21 PM »
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Yes (definitely NOT that I am genius,  :facepalm:) but will you have enough length in the slide bars to do that?  I ask because the main rod will pull the slide farther back or will you make new mains?  I do think you may want to lengthen the boiler a bit when you do that because the overhang from the smokebox front to the cylinders will be very small.  I may have something that can help you and I will contact you via PM.  Something from a certain, very special PRR boiler designer... ;)