Improving the Life-Like C-424

[BCR 570]

Tim, you mention that you will do the cab/short hood modification on your CN and EL locos.  I have a couple of the Briggs kits which will eventually be BCR units.  I know the Briggs shells use the Life Like cab.  Would these upgrades be usefull on those models as well or are they not needed?  Perhaps just the cab?  I guess I'm wondering if you didn't mention it since yours are built and look stunning.  Perhaps it would hurt to much to send tham back to the body shop?

I am going to order some of the Atlas C-628 cabs and will determine firsthand how feasible the cab swap is.  If I like what I see I will try it on the two units yet to be built.  If it works well I might go back and build replacement bodies for the three I have done.  I would definitely like to re-do 810 because the weathering was overdone, and this would be an excuse to do so.  I have some M-630s to get back to and finish first, however.


Tim

[BCR 570]

Tim, there's only one thing better than 3 Alcos together, and that's more than 3 Alcos together.

I can do that - add C-420 632 to consist:




Thats my ALCO limit, though - the remainder of the roster is MLW!   

Tim

[jmlaboda - RIP]

One thing to mention... don't forget the bulge on one side of the hood up close to the air intake... it was a mod that was found on D&H 451-series but not the GNWR financed rebuilds in the 461-series, and also found on the D&M C425ms...
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2139806
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2669795
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1082252

Its worth noting that the D&H 451-series units (and I suspect the D&M units as well) had several upgrades that were applied at the time of their rebuilding that were developed by the Master Mechanic of the D&H (can't remember his name).  His extensive history with ALCOs lead to some valuable experience and the upgrades that were done helped to make the engines a bit more reliable than the original product.

[rdg5308]

Rdg5308, real nice work on the 1:1 C-424.  Has yours been repained yet?

Tim, there's only one thing better than 3 Alcos together, and that's more than 3 Alcos together.

The radiator was made from 2 Atlas C-628/630 radiators.  I simply cut them into sections along the edge of the molded on walkway.  I then glued 3 sections together, minus walkways, to make the correct width radiator.  The new walkway was a left over piece of etched freightcar walkway, possibly Plano, or a left over from a Briggs set.  I used very thin styrene strips along the edges of the walkway to give it a little more thickess and rigidity.

The Alco shutters on century radiators are quite a feature when viewed from above.  I have in the past used Con-Cor U-50 radiators to simulate Alco shutters in the open position.  I've also considered using appropriately sized weatherboard styrene sheets to simulate semi-closed shutters.

Cheers
Steve

Thanks for the info on the shutters.  I never liked the way it was done on the LL or Atlas Centuries and while it's a small detail, it looks much better with the separate walkway.

As for 322/5204, the 32 year old red paint has long faded to pink, but it will remain that way until some other projects ahead of it are done.  It's currently OOS having its oil cooler rebuilt.

Charlie

[mandealco]

Hi Jerry
The Hornell rebuilds have varying improvements and modifications, likely due to customer requirements.  IIRC, the GBW units were rebuilt in kind with 16 cyl prime movers.  They had some improvements, but not the bulge on the RHS.  The D&M C-425Ms were re-engined with 12-cyl prime movers, and they had the bulge.  I can't remember whether or not the D&H units received 12-cyl engines, but I suspect not.  They did receive the chopped rear eyebrow look, which the G&W units may have kept.

I will post photos later, that I took in June, that show a former D&H unit and the 321 I'm modelling.  I wish I had taken more photos while there, though the most important one I wouldn't have been able to get anyway, the top of the radiator!!!!!!  The radiator profile is quite different, as you will see in the photos, and not what was there when rebuilt.  Another GBW change has been the removal of the dynamic brakes from the 3 that are in Lakeville, which you will also see in the photos.

rdg5308, has the 5204 still got her dynamics?  Also, is there any chance of a photo of the top of the radiator before I paint mine?  If the 5204 is the same, the radiator is several inches lower at the top than the standard C-424 radiator.  Look at the photos that I hope to post later, and you'll see how low it sits.

Thanks for all the interesting posts.
Cheers
Steve

[rdg5308]

Steve,

I don't have any pictures of the radiators, and I don't recall how they look.  Ours is missing the shutters - if we can't come up  with a set, we'll fabricate them when the  time comes. I think they were originally built with pneumatically operated shutters, but none of the piping exists, so I believe it would have had so-called flutter shutters that just open and close by the air movement from the fan.   The dynamics were removed like the rest of them, but all of the equipment related to it is intact and we have set to go back in.

I can swing by the museum and get some pictures of the rads the way they stand now this weekend, and If I can't make it for some reason I can get our CMO to get them.  I would expect they were done the same way as the rest.

Charlie

[mandealco]

I think the removal of the shutters would explain the reduction in height that is seen in the photos (or will be when I get them posted).  I hadn't thought of that, but if they sit in a frame that is about 4" high, then that's the difference.  If you look at the radiator on any (almost any) C-424/425, there is a seam along the sides, 3/4 way up the radiator.  You can see it on my model.  If the top section was the shutters, then removing them would leave exactly what you see on the GBW C-424s. 

Thanks for the offer of photos of the 5204, they will likely show I need to change the radiator again!  Doh!  But better to do it now than after she's painted.  Much appreciated.

Cheers
Steve

[mandealco]

Here are some photos to illustrate some of the points in previous posts:
LAL 423 is a former D&H C-424, it has the sawn off eyebrow number boards and the RHS bulge.


The photos of former GB&W 321 show the missing dynamic brakes - hatch on roof is lower than normal and the 3 car body openings along the top side of the hood are see through, normally the dynamic brake resisters would block this view.  Also notice the gap between the radiator and the walkway, much bigger than normal and the lack of the side seam on the edge of the radiator panel.  This is where the shutters have been removed.  Thanks Charlie for the info.  Looks like my model needs a new radiator, minus the shutters.  Oh well, something different to add.


Sorry I couldn't get the photos posted earlier, couldn't get them to upload to photobucket.

Thanks for the more than useful discussion, learning more every day.

Cheers
Steve

[fredmoehrle]

 
Well, Don Manlick says he doesn't do the GBW decals in N scale.
I'll look at that list again, so far though, three strikes.
He does do C&O car ferrys, a set for the Edmund Fitzgerald, and some MILW box cars in N scale thought.

[bdennis]

Earlier Steve was looking for a top shot of the D&H units.
Here is one I found.
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=201112142132452786.jpg&order=byrail&page=5&key=Delaware%20%26%20Hudson
This photo was taken in 1985 (Photo from nerail.org)
Apparently all the D&H units were rebuilt in 1980 at the GE Plant in Hornell, NY.
They had a 12 cyl 251C prime mover.
In this photo it does not have the bluge and has the original rear number boards.

[mandealco]

Nice photo.  This just adds to the muddle, is this one of the lease units?  I must do some research to find which rebuilds had the 12-cyl 251 and which kept their 16-cyl engines.  This one has the flutter shutters.  It appears the only ones to lose their radiator shutters are the 4 GB&W rebuilds.

CORRECTION:  Somewhere I said the winter windows I used were made by Detail Associates.  They are/were in fact made by Loco-Motives.

Cheers
Steve

[bdennis]

Steve,
See here for more info ont he D&H units.
http://www.bridge-line.org/blhs/c424.html

And here
http://www.joshuakblay.com/dhsurvivors.html

And here
http://www.trainweb.org/dhvm/photographs/diesel/photographs_c-424.htm.

[mandealco]

Thanks for the photo links.  I did some research on the Hornell rebuilds, from my 1995 copy of "The Contemporary Diesel Spotter's Guide".  Looks like I'm wrong again:  All the rebuilds received 12-cyl prime movers except the GB&W rebuilds.  Not sure what the bulge is for then, seems some of the D&H/G&W units had it and some didn't.

Cheers
Steve

[rdg5308]

Steve,

Here is a shot of the radiators of 5204.  Not really sure why the shutters were removed as at the very minimum, they protect the radiators from damage.  We have seen video of them still installed near the end of the GBW, but I think I saw a shot posted somewhere of 321 still on the GBW missing them as well.



Here is a shot of the hatch cover the GBW installed after the dynamic brakes were removed.  It's about 4" high.



Here's a closer shot which shows how the 24" I beam frame looks.



And another of the back of the pilot surrounding the draft gear.



One very subtle detail out of Hornell on the GBW C-424's were the doors added on the class lights/number boards.  Not 100% sure what the purpose was, but knowing how drafty that area was on a Century, they may have sealed it better.  The original openings on the cab wall were intact and we removed the doors and put the  class lights/number boards back where they belong.




Besides the plow, one other GBW installed detail was a screen over the rear radiator louvers to keep from sucking stuff in.  We removed those as well.

Hope that helps.

Charlie

[mandealco]

That's fabulaous Charlie, great photos. I'd given a lot of thought into how to model the class light doors, then decided not to do them, not so sure now.  The dynamic brake area, I can do that, and will soon.  Those exposed radiators are a bit of a challenge.  Anyone got any ideas?  I've been looking at the photos a while and the ideas I've had aren't great so far.

Thanks for the photos, I really didn't expect to get this level of help.  I'll post some more photos when I complete the changes.

Cheers
Steve