Remotoring some old Atlas/Roco FA-1s ??? Help....

[VonRyan]

Hi all, recently i got a box of some old Atlas/Roco FA-1s from a gentleman on NScaleYardSale Yahoo group, and at a price no mortal can argue with, FREE! He explained that it was his way of paying it forward for a kindness done to him when he was in the boat that i'm in now.

One chassis runs well, needs a slight coax to start up, the second needs a bit more coaxing but runs so-so, and the third runs a bit less than so-so once you coax it well enough... I've four shells, 3 A units and one B unit and three chassis. One A-unit is in PRR colors, the scheme of choice for all the units. I'd like to run two A units back-to-back with DCC and retain a third A unit for DC use on the odd occasion. I'll probably save the current PRR A unit shell and the best working chassis for the DC unit, and i'll see about finding someone to strip, paint, and decal the other two A-unit shells since the gentleman included a very useful sheet of PRR decals that appears to have everything to decal the two other A-units.

Does anyone have any experience with remotoring these "relics" of N-Scale pennsy-power, and if so what motors should i use that are not only easy to acquire, -somewhat- easy on the coffers (my 17th birthday was Thursday the 19th so i've a bit of the greens) and are good and reliable runners for using with a Digitrax DCC decoder (a DZ123 or DZ125 since they seem to be the cheapest) and also what should i use a replacement headlights even though the existing ones work, i'd like something that'll better work with a decoder and be more constant/bright/reliable.

Also, if anyone has an interest in airbrush-painting the two A-unit shells into PRR Brunswick green and adding the decals, feel free to reply here or PM me.

Thanks All!

-Cody F.

[Cajonpassfan]

Cody,
I have an ABA set of the Roco Austria Alcos I acquired back in the dark ages of N scale and painted them for UP. My recollection is that they had big and relatively decent motors for their day. It's the plastic gears that maybe your problem. Remotoring my not be your answer, certainly not an easy proposition, but you may make two decent running units by using the best parts from the ones you have, it's a time honored railroad shop tradition. I pulled mine out tonight, after probably 20 plus years in storage, oiled them a little, and voila, they run decent although they do emit a bit of grinding noise... Pre DCC diesel"sound".... converting them to DCC will be a chore as well so make sure you get them to run well on DC before bothering with a conversion. DCC isnt going to solve a mechanical problem. You may be on the lookout for spare Pennsy shells or units for parts on eBay, or with luck, get one of the guys to donate parts or a unit for parts...
Good luck and have fun,
Otto, in California

[peteski]

Cody,
any time you need to know more about pretty much any N scale locomotive's construction, history or running qualities, I recommend that you visit Mark's excellent N scale locomotive encyclopedia.  http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/locos.html Hint: bookmark it in your browser. 

As far as this loco goes, see http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/loco/atlasfa.html . Looks liek that model has a giant motor with a flywheel.  Yes, Mark doesn't give a good grade (for several reasons he mentioned in the writeup).  I still think you can get it to run pretty decent if you take it apart and see what can be tweaked to make it run better.  To me taking models apart and tuning them up is one of the the favorite aspect of this hobby.  I agree with Otto: make it run as best as you can in DC before installing a decoder.

[bbussey]

My recommendation is to procure Life-Like FA1/FB1 units.  The prices were reasonable and the models are better detailed and better running than the ancient Atlas/Roco model.  While it's difficult to argue against "free" acquisitions, it becomes less so when talking about putting money into them in the form of decoders and repowering.  At that point, the Life-Like units are the more logical option.

[Chris333]

Yeah a new motor can cost you $29 and that just happens to be the exact price I paid for brand new LifeLike FA1's on e-bay.

[mrp]

 Cody:

I have 7 of these in service, usually paired with a Life Like B unit, and all with a DCC decoder installed. They are still decent engines, though a bit noisy by current standards. If the engines have the original wheel sets, you won’t be able to run them on Atlas code 55 track

My engines have seen several upgrades over the years, among them the Atlas weight kit, Kadee (now Micro Trains) pilot conversions, and NWSL wheel sets. This happened over a period of 15 – 20 years since they first were acquired around 1985. Since decoders have gotten so cheap, I decided to install them as well. The decoder install is about the easiest wired decoder install I have done.

If I was starting from scratch, I probably wouldn’t do it. The Life Like units are better, and probably cheaper than doing all the upgrades to the old ROCO units to bring then up to spec.

You could tune up what you have, but it’s probably not worth the money to fix them up, unless there is some sentimental value. Or, like me, you just like fixing up the old stuff so you can see it run again.

I have 2 more that I would like to finish off, but need the weight kits. If you have extra, please let me know.

Michael Pennie

[Wardie]

I would agree with others that have posted that if you are looking at purchasing parts the Lifelike split fame FAs are a much better option, and can often be found on eBay very reasonably priced. The Lifelikes will require some frame modification to make room for a decoder, but the shell and mechanism are far superior. Just try to make sure you are getting the newer ones with the split frame design. The plastic frame aren't bad, but aren't as good, the easiest way to tell is if the couplers are body mounted or truck mounted, truck mounted with a big open front on the FA isn't hold plastic frame version.

[VonRyan]

If the life-like units are split frame, then i'm certainly not going to use them since then the huge costs of frame milling sets in plus new motors for them since life-likes are dirt. It's cheaper to stick with what i have and make it work, i already have some 1990s Kato F3's

All three chassis have a pcb that has wires going to either side of the trucks. At least one of the motors is in order to where coaxing is more of "breath on it and it starts up", and will be the one to stay DC. On all the chassis, all the gears are intact so no problems there. I like the fact that there are flywheels on the existing motors so i'll probably retain those for more traction/pulling-power I'll also see what i can do in the way of removing any axles that have traction tires as they're about as useful as a hole in the head and put them on the DC unit (the chassis for which has no such axles, making it a solid candidate).

I might be able to strip the two A unit shells, loose the B-unit shell among my assorted crap, and then sit there and stare at them.
$29 for a replacement motor sounds a bit odd, since i've been told that they're more like $12, IIRC, i just need to know what and where to buy...

Of course, now that i just got these locos, the bevel gears for my Nn3 loco(s) come in... Of course the Nn3 will be held up till i can thicken the motor shaft to fit the gear.


-Cody F.

[VonRyan]

Oh, i probably should note that the PRR unit came in its box with the original Bev-Bel label.

-Cody F.

[peteski]

If the life-like units are split frame, then i'm certainly not going to use them since then the huge costs of frame milling sets in plus new motors for them since life-likes are dirt. It's cheaper to stick with what i have and make it work, i already have some 1990s Kato F3's

-Cody F.

Um, I have to strongly disagree with you here. LifeLike models (especially the split-frame) are actually quite good. I would compare the split-frame model to the current Atlas locos. All of their motors are also quite good. Some people actually use those motors to re-power other locos.  Again, for reference see http://www.visi.com/~spookshow/loco/llalcof.html  Mark gives them A and B rating (deservedly so).





As far as decoders go, there is plenty of room in the older chassis (or you can easily cut piece of the lead weight out).  The split frame chassis might accept a small decoder (like DZ125) in place of the black cab interior.  Or you can fairly easily cut a chunk of the top off with a metal-cutting hacksaw (after taking the chassis apart first).

[Chris333]

A Mashima motor would cost around $25-30, just an example. My ABBA set of LL FA1's are the best diesels I own. Plus I got them pretty cheap by watching for them on e-bay.

[bbussey]

Cody,

Interesting.  It seems you've had a run a poor luck, since your experience with your Life-Like FA1 units is not the norm.  I, and others here on the boards, have not had any such issues regarding the operation of the units, and I've had my dozen or so split-frame units for at least a decade if not more.  The motors are hardly "dirt" as you put it, and you don't have to contract out milling the frames when you can use a bastard file to create space for a small decoder. 

The bottom line is that the Life-Like units are newer technology and superior to the Roco units in every area - tooling relief, authenticity to the prototype, mechanism design, performance, model weight, gear ratio, ride height, wheel flange depth, crispness of paint, fineness of printing.  If you can find $12 replacement motors for the Roco units, they are unlikely to be of an acceptable quality, and it makes little sense to spend time and effort to convert an inferior product to DCC.

[Chris333]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rock-Island-FA1-FB1-locomotives-Run-smooth-pull-strong-crisp-detail-paint-/330768764285?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item4d035acd7d

Buy it now for $35. That is $17.50 a piece! they are both powered.

[LV LOU]

 I really like the Atlas FA's,I have three or four nice sets,one pair I bought when Atlas released them in the late 70's,they were a big deal then.I think the B unit is a JnJ shell,Atlas never made one.But.. They are what they are,be happy with the way they run.The trucks really are the downside,no matter what motor you put in,they're not going to run appreciably better.The motor that's in them is actually not that bad.I would actually recommend the Life Like plastic frame FA motors for the swap if you're determined,they're one of the better motors out there..I couldn't see putting decoders in them,unless you put them together as a set with one decoder..My sets are actually all wired together,so I can run traction tires on them and still get good pickup,they're lousy pullers.I use the weight kits,too..

[mmagliaro]

Here's my $.02 on this, with the caveat that I don't actually own one of these.
First, be sure that the issue with them not starting up is really the motor and not electrical pickup.
If you can hook clip leads to the motor directly, and it always starts up at relatively low speed, then
the problem is not the motor and you will still have that problem even if you change the motor.

It the motor has trouble starting, it may just have a commutator that's loaded up with carbon.  If you
are game enough to disassemble that can motor, you can clean out the comm slots and it might
run a whole lot better.

Second, as plenty of others have already pointed out, remotoring these makes no economic sense
unless you can get some sort of super deal on motors.   Some Bachmann replacement motors are $12,
but all the Atlas and Kato motors go for over $20, and Mashimas are more.   I used to be
able to get Kato GM5 motors for 10 or 12 bucks, but now that's only if I get lucky at a train show.

There are cheap good motors out there.  One of my favorites is the old Life-Like motor from their
1990s era F units.  You can buy those engines on eBay for 10 bucks and grab the motor.

But really make sure it's the motor before you bother. That would be my advice