Need a trackplanner

[Leggy]

To put it simply I have no talent when it comes to realistic track planning and as such find myself in a dilemma, I've got a large space to build a layout but nothing to fill it with. I'd like my fictional Iron Ore hauler to be as realistic as possible in terms of operation but still with a slant towards the whimsy of freelancing. BTW, this will be N scale.


layout area

59 Class SD80ACe

GDRMCo Map

I've attached a diagram of the space available (14m = ~46', 10m = ~33') along with the main locomotive type (SD80ACe) and a map of the line.

Givens:
-Utah Belt style always in the present modelling
-Modern double track concrete tie mainline built to handle high axle loads
-110 wagon iron ore trains (~8m long in N scale)
-Large turnouts (#12) and wide radii curves
-Complete mine (Constance Range) to port (Townsville) line modelled, will allow live loads to be used (load at the mine, dump at the rotary dumper at the port)
-Double level with no helix

Druthers:
-Must be designed so as not to cross the stairway door
-Modular design necessary
-Narrow shelving a must


BHPB(Not my photo, scabbed from www.westernrails.com

FMG(Not my photo, scabbed from www.westernrails.com

Port Hedland

Townsville itself would need a yard capable of holding 8 full iron ore trains in 2 yards, arrivals and departures which feed the rotary dumper. The main area will need to be setup as shown in the Port Hedland image. The BHPB picture shows how the west end of the departure yard will need to be set out and the FMG image shows the layout of the loco and wagon workshops.

Just west of Charters Towers is the Great Dividing Range which I would like to have a main feature and atleast have 2% or higher grades with winding curves (up from Tville, Charters Towers as the summit, down to the plains). A short distance to the east of Charters Towers is the Burdekin River which must be crossed to enter town, I'd love a big bridge scene and this would be perfect for the job. Also in Townsville (population 180k I believe now) and Charters Towers (population of ~10,000) I would like to include some street running and some non-iron ore industry (Townsville would be some industrial switching maybe, Charters would have possibly a cattle pen and maybe a fuel distributor).

From there on west until just west of Julia Creek the area is open plains and allows some tangent running with the odd creek crossing. Julia Creek isn't a big place and so wouldn't feature much of a town scene.

Cloncurry would feature the junction for the branch to Winton (copper mine down there, phosphate mine along the way) and is still only about the size of Charters Towers, but a bit of switching here would be good. Not sure if it's worth modelling the branch to Winton or representing it with a hidden staging yard.

Mt Isa is the main town in the area and features a few zinc and copper refineries along with mining equipment facilities. Not sure if including the refineries would be worth it but switching of mine related industries would be a plus. This would also feature a loco and wagon servicing and provisioning facility along with a small yard.

Constance Range is the main mine on the layout, it'd need sidings for mine equipment to be delivered/removed, fuel tankers to be unloaded and a set out track for bad order wagons.


In terms of how things will be modelled, the trains will be loaded with real loads (in this case scale size iron ore) and will be loaded at the balloon loop at the mine and dumped at the rotary dumper in Townsville. With the long trains running an ore train should provide a ton of work in itself in a op session.

All towns are to have a passenger station and siding for a passenger train to run.

I would like a throwback to the steam era in terms of a roundhouse at both Townsville and Mt Isa (which will house a fan trip steam locomotive).

Other than that it's all open.



BHPB2(Not my photo, scabbed from www.westernrails.com

[w neal]

Fantastic idea!

It seems that you may be from OZ yourself, so I suggest visiting the area, if at all possible (if you can stand the flies in summer!). You sound as if you have alreaady visited and researched it quite well. I was in the area myself many years ago, but not to see the trains unfortunately. I recall the drive inland from Townsville and stopping to see the mine pit @ Mt. Isa. Even got a picture of a train at some point.

You sound as if you have identified the areas and items you want already. I am of the mind that you do not need to plan things down to the letter before you start.  You do not need to have "realistic track planning" per se. You have the main items in mind. Its just a matter of seeing how these places will fit onto your shelves. I suggest just grabbing pencil & paper and start a rough sketching out of the locations you want.

In my case, I was able start building basic "grid" benchwork to help me start visualizing things as I went. Once I had a basic "cover" over my shelves (which can be as simple as cardboard), I would place crucial items such as a locomotive, a car (wagon), a few turnouts, maybe a structure, and some bridges along the way to again help me visualize things and get a feel for how much room they would take in the "real" world. There is nothing like 3-D track planning! What looks good on paper does not always work out so well on our layouts! You will discover how things will fit and be able to make adjustments as you go...

In my own case, my first task was to get the entire mainline down so I could run a train the entire length of the mainline. As I secured the tracks down, I would have to stop and consider each scene, place the proper mainline turnouts, bridges, etc. I nearly spent as much time securing track as I did stopping and visualizing each scene! But this method worked well. Afterwards, I had the fun of running a train or two and seeing how the concept worked in real time. AND I was able to adjust my track as I went along "completing" each scene with it's trackwork. Later I went back and began working on scenery.

My point is: do not be afraid of starting things with no official plan. Just have a rough sketch of how you want things to look. The thing will evolve as you go. Heck, I'm still refining things as I add scenery a scene at a time. Its fun that way.

Just a thought.

[Scottl]

I really like the concept (and the look of those BHP locos!).  It seems to me you have the kind of space to make it work- I would start with simple ideas and pencil them in to build a basic concept, and then detail it as you get something you like.

As a sidebar, can you actually get the iron ore cars on the market?  I have only seen the old school "Michigan" type of taconite cars in n-scale, but maybe there is something available on the Aussie market?  If I could get iron ore cars, I'd be interested in a iron hauler layout myself, but based on the planned Arcelor Mittal Mary River mine on northern Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic.

[wm3798]

Since you have very specific operations needs, start by designing the yard at Townsville as completely as you want it.  Figure out how much space it will need, and how best to orient it for your 1:1 crew to have good access.  Once that's all established, you'll see that it will only fit in one, maybe two places in the room.

Next design the next critical ops point, probably the junction there at Cloncurry.  Provide enough space between it and Townsville to make it feel like you're going somewhere, then plug it in. 

Finally, design your mine locations and see where they'll fit, keeping everything in logical order.

Now all you have to do is connect the dots with main lines. 

Not sure how you'll pull off the "no lix" and gain enough elevation to have operable space top and bottom.  I have about 15" between Greenwood and Elkins on mine, and I still needed to squeeze in a 2.5 turn twist.


 Also, from the looks of your reference photos, it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of landscape to hide a long grade... 

The live loads thing sounds like fun, but if in the end you need a helix or some other danger zone to make the operation work, don't let the tail wag the dog.

Other than that, looks like a well thought out concept.
Lee

[w neal]

What Scott said, I agree! No exacting plan needed. I started with my two terminals then just filled in the spaces with what will fit, but not look too overcrowded!

Oh. And when planning those yards/terminals AND passing sidings, keep your maximun train length (locomotives and cars (wagons)) in mind. Make sure your trains will "fit" into those passing sidings.

Can't wait to see your representations of those termite mounds! 

[John]

These guys are more of a "teach a man to fish" rather than "give a man a fish" ..   As Lee said, lets start with a yard, and go from there .. since you have a lot of room, its going to be an interesting project ..

[Specter3]

I would like to see more of a representation of the entry staircase. Pics or a better drawing would be helpful.

[Leggy]

Cripes! Shows what happens when you don't look at a thread for a while.

Thanks for the advice guys, things have changed however and the layout will not be being built in the current location planned. Sadly it'll be a few years until there will be the space I desire once more (will be going thru the Army as an Engineer (Officer) and I'm looking at purchasing my own plot of land to stick a house and rather large shed on).

I will keep the advice given in mind however when I do finally make a start, in the meantime it'll be locomotive and wagon collecting. For those that'd like to know, I'm having the detail parts needed, SD80ACe and ore wagons designed in 3D for rapid prototyping but the only thing is the deal I have made with the artist is for it all to only be for my use not for sale.


Oh and for just a little bit of background, I lived in Charters Towers and Townsville for 6 years each, commuted between the two for 4 of those years (134km one way...) and I can reassure you that a nolix design to gain height would fully be possible with the sort of mountain range that is between those two points. From just east of Hughenden to just west of Julia Creek is flatland plains, but from that point west of Julia Creek it once again turns into some pretty significant mountains.

[Philip H]

Leggy,
Essayon!

[Leggy]

Essayon? 

[Philip H]

If you are going to be an Army Engineer you'll hear that term, especially when you start working in USACE Districts.  and it should have been "Essayons"

Back to trains!

[Leggy]

Would that translate over to Australian Army? Hmmm.....

Oh yeah, I do live in Australia, should have mentioned that 

[Philip H]

I am sure they have something similar . . . . 

[Leggy]

Not sure if there's much French influence to be honest, we seem to be more based on the blimmin' Poms than anything....

[S Class]

Would that translate over to Australian Army? Hmmm.....

Oh yeah, I do live in Australia, should have mentioned that 

"Plier boys" as my brothers liked to describe themselves.

For Townsvile you could try some Z scale track to represent a cane railway, or you could use that as a premise for why there is a BAMF SD80 rolling down the street - old cane railway later standardized when the miners took over.

Don't forget to include the obligatory QR and QRN references to establish the benderland locale.