B&O Heavyweight assistance.

[Gozer the Gozerian]

Hey guys.

Hopefully I can ask a question on this subject and not insite a flame war .   Decorating noted they have information that the B&O 12-1 Sleeper carried the name of  "St. Bernard" in the Blue and Grey scheme.  I haven't had time to run this down, but wanted to know if this was accurate or would another name be more appropriate for this body style.

Thanks again for the help.

Joe
MTl

[jmlaboda]

I knew MT was going to the Dogs, but... this is an accurate name for a car sold to the B&O 31Dec48.  Painted B&O blue and gray just in time for Christmas 1950.  The only down side is that the car was equipped with York AC and three tread steps but as far as I am concerned it is an accurate enough car for my purposes!!!  But, now, if someone wants to make York and ATSF Steam Ejector AC and three tread steps... well, I would not complain.

Don't forget about the roster pages that I have up... they provide basic information on a variety of cars produced by MT (sleepers, parlors, observations)...
http://passcarphotos.info/Varnish/Pullman_3410.htm

I also recommend Tom Madden's Pullman Car Construction Records, which gives details on a large number of cars, including in most cases when they received their new owner's paint schemes.  Without Tom's extensive efforts to get this information into an usable format what can be accomplished today as far as accuracy goes would simply not be possible.  His is the most exhaustive and definitive work in regards to Pullman cars.
http://www.pullmanproject.com
 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

As always...thanks Jerry!

I knew MT was going to the Dogs, but... this is an accurate name for a car sold to the B&O 31Dec48.  Painted B&O blue and gray just in time for Christmas 1950.  The only down side is that the car was equipped with York AC and three tread steps but as far as I am concerned it is an accurate enough car for my purposes!!!  But, now, if someone wants to make York and ATSF Steam Ejector AC and three tread steps... well, I would not complain.

[jmlaboda]

Something else to possibly recommend to the powers that be... we need good quality Type 242 six-wheel trucks also.  A number of later Pullman cars used this type of truck and having such available would be a really great help, especially so since some roads specified this type of truck under most of their heavyweights!!!

[bbussey]

Use St. Johns or St. Angele instead.  While all of the B&O cars had York A/C, both of these had 4-steps and were painted blue&gray in 2/1949 and 7/1950 respectively.  St. Angele was repainted other than blue&gray (not sure what color) in 10/1952.

[rogergperkins]

I have this new in the roster awaiting the other MTL B&O heavy weights.
Just noticed I did not get the unimate couplers fully engaged.

[VGN50]

Joe,

While I acknowledge Jerry's incredible work with passenger car information and would never question Mr. Bussey's research, I am voting for St Bernard.

I admit it is my middle name and I have never liked the damn thing; but I am assuming the car comes with a tiny wooden keg of invigorating liquid.

Thanks for doing the B&O!

Mark

[jmlaboda]

"St. Angele was repainted other than blue&gray (not sure what color) in 10/1952."

The paint was CEH3690, which is still B&O paint.  Possibly minor differences somewhere...

[Sokramiketes]

"St. Angele was repainted other than blue&gray (not sure what color) in 10/1952."

The paint was CEH3690, which is still B&O paint.  Possibly minor differences somewhere...

Isn't there a difference in whether or not the yellow pin stripe at the roofline is included or not? 

[jmlaboda]

Some old shots indicate that there once was a yellow stripe on the lower side of cars and there is also photos of cars with roof colors being light or dark gray (possibly black).  These could be just some of the changes involved... looks like I may have to dig out the Model Railroader articles on building one of the early streamliners.

Most of the more recent photos/slides/etc. show the dark roof without the lower yellow stripe but there are a few where the lighter roof and stripe was applied, which I suspect was the earlier paint scheme.  A lot of examples on the B&O pages of the Passenger Car Photo Index...
http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/B&O1.htm

[sizemore]

Some old shots indicate that there once was a yellow stripe on the lower side of cars and there is also photos of cars with roof colors being light or dark gray (possibly black).  These could be just some of the changes involved... looks like I may have to dig out the Model Railroader articles on building one of the early streamliners.

Most of the more recent photos/slides/etc. show the dark roof without the lower yellow stripe but there are a few where the lighter roof and stripe was applied, which I suspect was the earlier paint scheme.  A lot of examples on the B&O pages of the Passenger Car Photo Index...
http://passcarphotos.info/Indices/B&O1.htm[/url]

Tony could probably correct me, but I believe it was the The Capitol Limited that had the grey roofs.

The S.

[SkipGear]

Tony could probably correct me, but I believe it was the The Capitol Limited that had the grey roofs.

The S.

I'll see if I can help without confusing things.

The only gray on the roof of any of the cars that I can find was a gray band about a foot high on the streamlined and streamstyled cars. The main part of the roof was still black. The Cincinnatian was painted very similarly.....

http://www.cincinnativiews.net/images-3/The%20Cincinnatian-Eden%20Park.jpg

I can't find any evidence of gray anywhere on the roof of a heavyweight without the streamlining. The black used on the roof seemed to fade to the equivilant of Floquil Grimmy Black and photographed very gray in some light but I don't believe any of the cars were painted gray on purpose. The Cincinnatian lost the gray band within a few years of its introduction so it is more the exception than the norm.

The picture of the Cincinatian car above also shows a 4 stripe design. I have also seen cars with:
....a single stripe below the gray
....two stripes, one above, one below the gray
....three stripes, one above, one below the gray and one sperating the roof from the blue

The hard part with B&O Blue and Gray cars is that by the 50's, many were already converted to a streamstyled body and many with thermopane windows. B&O was a frugal railroad and started converting their heavyweights to look like the new streamlined cars instead of buying new streamlined cars.

[sizemore]

I'll see if I can help without confusing things.

The only gray on the roof of any of the cars that I can find was a gray band about a foot high on the streamlined and streamstyled cars. The main part of the roof was still black. The Cincinnatian was painted very similarly.....

I can't find any evidence of gray anywhere on the roof of a heavyweight without the streamlining. The black used on the roof seemed to fade to the equivilant of Floquil Grimmy Black and photographed very gray in some light but I don't believe any of the cars were painted gray on purpose. The Cincinnatian lost the gray band within a few years of its introduction so it is more the exception than the norm.

YES! Shoulda known that!

The S.