The original Boston Line BACK on track!

[OldEastRR]

I saw an article in MR about a similar shadowbox concept of the Altoona Shops and yards for a museum , but it was just a single wide box. Forgot the issue.
Are you planning a point to point or end loops for continuous running? What's the minimum radius?

[conrail98]

Reach out to Bob Sprague, http://www.annapolisjunctionrr.com/#!contact-me/ctrk. He will help you get a good prototypically realistic operational (or whatever you choose) layout,

Phil

[daniel_leavitt2000]

I saw an article in MR about a similar shadowbox concept of the Altoona Shops and yards for a museum , but it was just a single wide box. Forgot the issue.
Are you planning a point to point or end loops for continuous running? What's the minimum radius?

The layout is by definition a point to point. South Station is a stub yard. While Beacon Park is not, there are no industries east of it so it essentially is. I would like a return loop on each end to allow for trains to continuously, but I'm not sure how that would be implemented.

[basementcalling]

Daniel, what about a folded doggone style approach? That gets you double tracked mainline and your return loops.

I think you are thinking of putting 500 square feet of layout into a smaller space. You might need to cut a scene or they won't be long enough to switch or operate without fouling the next scene.

I like the idea of an open space, but yo could fit one peninsula in the space to spread out the chosen locations you want to focus on.

[mu26aeh]

Reach out to Bob Sprague, http://www.annapolisjunctionrr.com/#!contact-me/ctrk. He will help you get a good prototypically realistic operational (or whatever you choose) layout,

Phil

I will second this !  A few simple questions will get things started, and some back and forth between you and Mr Sprague will keep things going.  He drew up my CSX Hanover Subdivision, working from existing benchwork.  I have asked him to redraw it for a possible move to a new space in the future when he gets some downtime with no restrictions.  All I told him for current rendition was answers to his questionnaire and that I was working from the real CSX Hanover Subdivision.  I never could have come up with what he did as I have ideas in my head but can't get them on paper.  He did exactly that for me.

[MichaelWinicki]

I like the plan... and I like the idea that even with the layout, the room is still a room.

I'd be very careful about hidden trackage.  The smaller the amount the better. 

[Cajonpassfan]

Daniel, I think you've got a great start with having a general idea of what goes where... and it's exciting. Love the concept, and the room looks fabulous!

A couple of thoughts: Sometimes we tend to get hung up on detailed track plans and miss the big picture. The next thing I would do is develop a schematic track layout, a line diagram, and "test drive" it, to ensure a balanced and operationally sound track arrangement that can sustain the kind of traffic you want. A stub-ended passenger station adds a level of operational complexity (and time associated with turning trains and power). I do love the open room, wide aisle feel, but I don't see return loops and staging.

I'd ask myself how many fixed position and/or walk-around operators I'd need to so this concept justice. You and a buddy? Half a dozen? A dozen guys that have a level of interest and experience to make it all work?

I wouldn't worry too much about grades; this is not a mountain rairoad where grades need to be emphasized. A gentle climb here or there is all that's needed and optimal track elevation relative to the viewer is in my opinion much more important.

Not critical here, on the contrary, but having a large layout myself, I wish I had paid more attention to these questions earlier on.

Have fun with this and best of luck!
Otto K.

PS: Model Railroader used to accompany every published track plan with a schematic diagram, and and some point stopped doing that. Personally, I think they did the hobby a disservice when they stopped; the schematic is the "bones"
of track planning IMHO. How one lays out curves, sidings and scenes is important aesthetically, but operationally, the schematic should drive the design. IMHO of course.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Here is another sketch out. Staging over existing bookcases prior to Worcester would be modeled after the P&W/Guilford Ayer branch. I also lengthened the peninsula so I could add the Marlboro Branch to the end of Nevins Yard Framingham.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Daniel, I think you've got a great start with having a general idea of what goes where... and it's exciting. Love the concept, and the room looks fabulous!

A couple of thoughts: Sometimes we tend to get hung up on detailed track plans and miss the big picture. The next thing I would do is develop a schematic track layout, a line diagram, and "test drive" it, to ensure a balanced and operationally sound track arrangement that can sustain the kind of traffic you want. A stub-ended passenger station adds a level of operational complexity (and time associated with turning trains and power). I do love the open room, wide aisle feel, but I don't see return loops and staging.

I'd ask myself how many fixed position and/or walk-around operators I'd need to so this concept justice. You and a buddy? Half a dozen? A dozen guys that have a level of interest and experience to make it all work?

I wouldn't worry too much about grades; this is not a mountain rairoad where grades need to be emphasized. A gentle climb here or there is all that's needed and optimal track elevation relative to the viewer is in my opinion much more important.

Not critical here, on the contrary, but having a large layout myself, I wish I had paid more attention to these questions earlier on.

Have fun with this and best of luck!
Otto K.

PS: Model Railroader used to accompany every published track plan with a schematic diagram, and and some point stopped doing that. Personally, I think they did the hobby a disservice when they stopped; the schematic is the "bones"
of track planning IMHO. How one lays out curves, sidings and scenes is important aesthetically, but operationally, the schematic should drive the design. IMHO of course.

Otto, lots of good ideas. I added end staging in Worcester in the above post. This would rest on top of these shelves:

Technically this would be either the Boston Line west of Worcester or I could detail it to look like the Ayer Branch. Either way, it would functionally bring in all trains north and west of Worcester. I would need to do some more measurements, but this might also let me bring Worcester Yard up to the top of the floor plan, putting more distance between Worcester and Framingham yard. This may look a little more natural.

Boston would probably need hidden staging or a return loop under the layout. I would probably use Grand Junction for this, and snake it to the back of the layout and under the bench work. Room is tight here because I have a hutch containing the sump pump in the lower right corner. I also plan on adding a very basic loop layout under South Station to model the Red Line MBTA subway. Only the subway station would be visible through a window with the train fully automated.

The layout will be fully DCC/Computer Controled. There will be 5 "positions" with wireless throttles: Worcester, Framingham, Boston and two road units. All throttles will be iPhone 4S running WiThrottle through JMRI. This actually covers ops almost exactly the same as the prototype.

Scenery has also been a lot on my mind. Will a cut down yard look like the prototype? How much can I change before it becomes a caricature of the prototype? Swapping north facing buildings to south is one thing. Cutting 20 tracks to a 10 track yard may be totally different.

I am also forced with dealing with Worcester Union Station's strange geometry. Its a BIG building - larger than South Station. And it's a triangle. And the platforms are at a 90' angle from each other. This means that the station  be located on a corner. This complicates Worcester's design quite a bit.

Originally I was looking at a summer themed layout as that is very easy to scenic. This has changed to a late fall/winter season. Advances in tree construction and materials certainly influenced this. I also like that mute gray feel to it. I think this would compliment the room colors well.

[daniel_leavitt2000]

This was mentioned over at nscale.net. It describes the shadow / picture box in detail.
https://smallurbanrails.wordpress.com/2015/09/29/shadowboxing-and-the-proscenium-arch/

[daniel_leavitt2000]

Planning is not my strong point. I really wanted to model all the Boston line from Worcester to Boston, but I just don't think it is possible. I have started several threads to this effect, and every time I think I have a solution, it is overwrought, complicated and just not tenable.

I was working on what the shadow boxes might look like, and it would end up being a multi-deck helix infested mess:









[None are to scale]

I'm leaving out Framingham North and South yards as that would be a double decked peninsula which I haven't figured out how to incorporate.

With these shadow boxes, I would need a reverse loop/helix before Worcester so that the P&W can run up into Worcester Yard. Then another one after Nevins for North and South Yards and yet another before Boston so freight can go to the lower level and passenger trains can continue to South Station.

As many of you have pointed out, this would be a nightmare to run with all the hidden tracks.

So this got me thinking; what is the basic goal of this layout?

I keep thinking back to what got me into trains. Both my grade school and Scout meetings were right in front of the line between Nevins and the North/South yard turnouts. I stopped what I was doing every time there was a train, much to my teacher's dismay.

But this... and when my mom would park in front of North yard at night with me to watch the switching... This is what got me into modeling. This is what I look back fondly at.

Framingham itself wouldn't be a great model. No industries and no start to finish operations. But expanded... Include Westboro with its industries that fed from Nevins. Include the GM distribution yard (South Yard), add a line to Walpole Junction that goes to hidden staging. This might work. And then it dawned on me. The end of the layout need not be Boston. Or the Boston Line at all, but the Saxonville Branch with the Wonder Bread plant.



Lets start at the top and move counter-clockwise.
Return loop and hidden staging in the utility room. This will feed to the mouth of Westboro Yard. After yard and industries, we have a small island that serves as a view block before Framingham, but not so large it makes the room claustrophobic.

Nevins yard is next followed by a branch to South Yard. This will dip below the layout to a lower level under North to provide enough room for the GM distribution yard.

North yard will be the only large peninsula. It will not have a view block. South Yard will be on a lower level below it.

Following North/South Yards, there will be a branch off to Walpole Junction. This track will wander out of sight and rejoin the mainline near the end reverse loop.

Boston line continues. Just before the basement door, the Saxonville Branch turns off. The area in front of the door will feature a 4 track lift-off section: Saxonville, 2 Boston Line mains and Walpole.

After the door and lift off section, the mainline and Walpole branch disappear behind a view block. Walpole then rejoins the mainline which ends in a hidden return loop and a few storage tracks.

The layout then follows the Saxonville Branch, which would be the most scenic part of the layout. The branch bisects a state park on its way to a cold storage warehouse and the Wonder Bread plant.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

@daniel_leavitt2000 , I think you just posted six perfectly good layout plans.

What about picking one and going with it?

[Scottl]

I'm going to add my encouragement to pick something modest (any of the examples looks interesting) to get started.  Analysis paralysis can affect all of us.

[nickelplate759]

Would that be the old Wonder-bread / Twinkie factory in Natick - the one that Peter Griffin went to after the Y2K apocalypse?

[daniel_leavitt2000]

That's the factory. It was idle by 2003 and torn down around 2005 to make way for the Natick Mall expansion. That little endeavor led to General Growth Properties (at the time #2 behind Simon in mall footage) to go insolvent.

Don't mess with the Twinkies.

A layout basted on Framingham seems to be the way to go. It's not so complicated that I will never finish it and can be operated by one person or up to 5 (road freight operator, Westboro, South, North operators and one for commuter/Amtrak service.

I can start work on Westboro first. It is small and the track plan shouldn't need to change much if I decide to change things around.