Classic Metal Works Blog - Poll

[MichaelWinicki]

Also, my 2 cents on the WS built-ups...  They look like someone who is just learning to detail has gotten a hold of them.  Like the train station with gobs of posters and crap.  They're not bad per se, just busy-looking.  And anachronistic.

I admit to having a built-up Atlas house on the layout (they look so delightfully plain and non-era/locale specific) as well as a set of Walthers railroad structures which, though pre-assembled, I hand painted.  Otherwise it's just so much easier to do what I want to do to a structure when it's still a kit.

For me, kits versus RTR is less about the badge of honor than about convenience (easier to paint contrasting parts on a sprue; easier to kitbash kits!) and price.

I hope we never run out of DPM kits.

Convenience is a key point for many folks.

I think prefabs are good for the hobby from the standpoint it gets the ball rolling for those folks that have a plywood empire only and need that "shove" into getting their layouts covered in buildings.  One building in place begets another building in place. 

[DKS]

My own opinion is that the laser kit folks could do more/better marketing so that the end-user (and even the retail business owner) has a better idea of why laser kits are good option.

Agreed. The recommendation I made to one manufacturer with whom I recently spoke was to edumacate their customers on the many advantages of kits.

[MichaelWinicki]

Agreed. The recommendation I made to one manufacturer with whom I recently spoke was to edumacate their customers on the many advantages of kits.

LOL!

Yeah after I typed my reply it struck me that you probably did do that David.

Recently I did the A.C. Brown Manufacturing structure from AMB, and it was just a ball to assemble.  It was time consuming and in some cases challenging but the structural details were just incredible.   Certainly a step up from the DPM buildings.

[sirenwerks]

Speaking of kits, I'm kinda disappointed at the lack of promotion at the LHS level of the hobby (beyond promoting the products of the hobby). All of the ones I'm familiar with (Kleins in Baltimore, one in Naptown, a few in ABQ were I used to live, as well as Sacto and Chuck's) are lame about drumming up new biz beyond word of mouth. My long-time and again current LHS is MBK and I know it's primarily an etailer now, but I was kinda hoping they'd carve out a spot to do workshops or display customer work or something with its grand new facility. Instead it seems like they have even less on the floor, though wider aisles. True, they have an O and HO layout, but the first I don't go near (fake smoke smell has the appeal of burnt toast or vomit, IMO) and the HO layout's, well, disappointing and they're both noisy. The retailers seem to rely more on the clubs and shows to do the development work, but I personally don't see the appeal of either of those venues. I'd presume that, if I feel that way, there are more who feel the same way too.

[SkipGear]

Atlas canned the version of this topic that I posted there this morning. Actually, I posted it twice, the first one was gone with in 5 minutes and I thought it had just gotten lost in the ether so I reposted it. This evening I got a polite e-mail to stop posting other companies market research on the forum.

I find it kind of odd, I don't really consider CMW direct competition with Atlas as they seem to concentrate on more modern vehichles where CMW's efforts are aimed at the transition era. Maybe the bring it back to the USA was a slap in the face to them, who knows.

[MichaelWinicki]

Speaking of kits, I'm kinda disappointed at the lack of promotion at the LHS level of the hobby (beyond promoting the products of the hobby). All of the ones I'm familiar with (Kleins in Baltimore, one in Naptown, a few in ABQ were I used to live, as well as Sacto and Chuck's) are lame about drumming up new biz beyond word of mouth.

Great point.

[wm3798]

Moose Caboose in Sykesville does weekly (or is it monthly?) clinics on a variety of subjects.  His audience tends more to the R/C and garden railroad set, but he's got a strong selection of HO and a reasonable representation of N there.  Might be worth contacting him about setting up a curriculum on N scale laser kits and see who bites?

Lee

[seusscaboose]

True, they have an O and HO layout...

don't forget their N Scale one as well... It is a good example of what can be done in small spaces.

EP

[Catt]

I to voted very likely for all the right reasons. ;D

I don't buy any of the WS buildings,the DPM kits are way over priced and the prefabs are loaded with a bunch of junk I wouldn't use and are painted up to someone elses's idea of what the building should look like.

Not to mention the fact that most (if not all) of the WS pre fabs are done up for the 1950s and look totally out of place on a layout set in the present time frame.

[ArtinCA]

+3 for Very Likely here as well..

As for clinics, maybe they haven't had anyone offer to do them? Ever think about that?

However, that doesn't mean they'll do well. I know from experence that Home Depot offers clinics, but for the most part people don't come in for them. Our tile clinic is the one that gets the most (3-6 people). The Kids Workshop gets the most, but it's mainly kids building stuff.

Art

[sirenwerks]

don't forget their N Scale one as well... It is a good example of what can be done in small spaces.

EP

I'm hoping this is a gag because, as attentive as I consider myself, I've never seen a N scale layout there. Then again, Paul's never granted me back room, hush hush access, where they do the lap dances.

[MichaelWinicki]

+3 for Very Likely here as well..

As for clinics, maybe they haven't had anyone offer to do them? Ever think about that?

However, that doesn't mean they'll do well. I know from experence that Home Depot offers clinics, but for the most part people don't come in for them. Our tile clinic is the one that gets the most (3-6 people). The Kids Workshop gets the most, but it's mainly kids building stuff.

Art

You make a good point Art, but for someone to even consider doing a clinic, they have to know that their local shop would be interested in hosting them.

Kind of a "chicken & egg" thing. 

Switching to a related topic...

I haven't been to many hobby shops, but I've visited quite a few and I think in just about every case the shop has simply stacked all of their kits together in one area... plastic, laser-kit, prefabs... with no signage differentiating the Model Power prebuilt from a $100 laser kit.

Even if they separated them in some sort of "good/better/best" scenario, they would end up selling more better/best kits than what they would having them all collected together in one area.

[sirenwerks]

As for clinics, maybe they haven't had anyone offer to do them? Ever think about that?

However, that doesn't mean they'll do well. I know from experence that Home Depot offers clinics, but for the most part people don't come in for them. Our tile clinic is the one that gets the most (3-6 people). The Kids Workshop gets the most, but it's mainly kids building stuff.

Yes, I thought about it. But IMO, it would be of interest to the LHS first and foremost as a component of a marketing plan. Of course, I presume that LHSs want to be successful and proactively undertake marketing. And in regards to Home Depot, at least my local outlet, it's not very good at marketing those classes. Posting an 8x11 flier amongst many other fliers does not make for (good) marketing, and they can't complain about lack of interest when no one knows what's going on. Same for the LHS, MRR club...

But back to someone volunteering... that's an iffy prospect. I've spent many years in the nonprofit sector, so I'm familiar with volunteer recruitment and management. Does the volunteer have the capacity to teach? Should a LHS expect clients to come up with marketing ideas for it; and expect them to volunteer to actually perform the marketing for them? Time for the LHSs that have that sort of entitlement issue to grow up and realize they're a business and need to spend money to make money (or barter). That's often a complaint of small businesses - marketing's too expensive. It's an expense of business, period, like printer cartridges and employees. But with the I-don't-want-to-spend-money-to-make-money mindset, they will likely be surprised when they find out that closing a bricks and mortar business down has expenses too.

[TiVoPrince]

Although 
I have not  personally attended more than a few clinics/classes (my saturday schedule usually conflicts) Trainmaster in Duluth, GA sems to have classes most every month and also encourages customers to turn up on 'construction nights' to help advance the in store layouts. 

Getting customers engaged is important and there have also been several layouts buillt for charity there with participation encouraged from everyone.  Not like its an 'everyone plays' soccer league, skills are presented, improved, honed and well tested before applying those talents to whatever is being worked on.  It is a well deserved badge of honour to be invited to participate.  I hope that one day I might be deemed worthy to present something.

Many hobby shops barely have space for merchandise that they stock.  Most I have visited could not hold a crowd even if they were standing in the aisles.  This does not bode well for those shops, nor the web focused shop/sites to effectively grow the hobby.  These locations would still benefit from the classses because loyalty to the lowest possible price is the only loyalty is to price.  Not to say that web businesses could not sponsor clinics, classes or demonstrations at shows or events nationwide.

Train shows often have clinics but that audience is usually fully involved in the model railroad hobby already.  Something akin to the "Thomas" play table where participants can try techniques demonstrated in open and repeating clinics at a minimal cost and take home a 'trophy' that they made at the end of the day...

[sirenwerks]

If space is an issue, there are always community or arts centers, even renting a conference room at a hotel if attendance can be guaranteed (RSVP). Everything need not be done in-store though working externally will need to be planned into the curriculum. In fact, taking the show to the people tends to increase attendance by providing familiar surroundings to attendees.

There are other means too. Model railroading is a natural to teach the likes of basic engineering skills, project management, logistics, teamwork, and similar aspects as part of in-school or after-school programs. Not long ago I developed a program using puppetry to teach similar themes to elementary schoolers and can vouch for the fact that MRR would fit right in to such a curriculum for older kids. Teens, whether well-healed or at-risk youth showing promise could benefit and would enjoy such an effort made on their behalf.

Lets face it, one reason the hobby has seen some decline is because of the change in the American nuclear family. Where boys used to pick up the MRR bug from Dad's, the increased divorced rate has had an impact on such shared interests and activities. Shared time has declined and other interests that cater to individual participation, such as video games and web surfing, have taken over. Clubs aren't the most friendly place to pick up skills and certainly not a place where generation gaps are breached.

I think if the hobby wants to develop market, some sort of outreach needs to occur beyond the sheltered norm we geeks enjoy now. For instance, what a wasted opportunity N-Trak provides - it gets kids excited about the hobby when they see a set-up at the local mall or show and then...? It lets 'em blow in the wind. Why not sink the hook deeper by recruiting kids and their parents into a module building class (series) when their eyes are bugging out at the train show?

I know this is beyond most people's interest, they just want to play with trains. I'll stop my lament now.