Author Topic: Tehachapi, BC  (Read 218120 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

basementcalling

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 2438
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +209
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1680 on: May 16, 2019, 08:47:40 AM »
0
Wait, Gary Henshaw, professor out of this world :) , has unsoldered joints under a layout with ballast placed piece by piece?

That's somehow reassuring.
Peter Pfotenhauer

ednadolski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3026
  • Respect: +360
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1681 on: May 16, 2019, 09:37:30 AM »
0
What about one of those mini butane torches?  A few light, quick passes ought to do the trick, without damaging any of the insulation.

https://www.micromark.com/7-in-1-Micro-Torch-Kit

(Caveat: I've never used one of these myself for soldering, so this is just a suggestion.)

Ed

jereising

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 564
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +367
    • The Oakville Sub
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1682 on: May 16, 2019, 10:28:53 AM »
0
A pencil like this:



will do nicely.  Mine is similar but a lot older and blue.  I just crank up the heat and hold it on the joint long enough to produce the desired results.  And yes, my busses are AWG12 also.  I've never had a failure in 11 years.

Sorry to gang up on ya, Gary, but this is one thing you NEED to do.

A veteran of many Heathkits who learned to solder correctly thanks to them.
Jim Reising
Visit The Oakville Sub - A Different Tehachapi - at:
http://theoakvillesub.itgo.com/
And on Trainboard:
http://www.trainboard.com/grapevine/showthread.php?t=99466

CRL

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 734
  • Needs More Dirt.
  • Respect: +173
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1683 on: May 16, 2019, 11:21:32 AM »
+1
Keeping the tip very wet with solder and using flux goes a long way towards getting a solid joint.

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21082
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +1918
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1684 on: May 16, 2019, 03:01:31 PM »
0
Keeping the tip very wet with solder and using flux goes a long way towards getting a solid joint.

Yes, that is great advice.
As others had mentioned, any pencil-type soldering iron with a large chisel tip will work way better than s soldering gun. For heavy wire that you have a 60W or higher power would be good idea.  Temperature control would also be nice, but if the main job will be just to solder track feeders to the DCC bus, a cheaper iron without temperature control will work.  Then a good iron stand comes in very handy - it will keep the hot iron safe when not in your hand, and it has a wet sponge for *ALWAYS* keeping the tip clean.

For a good solder joint, place some flux over the exposed wire, clean the tip, apply some solder to one of the chisel tip faces, then touch the tip (with the solder on it) to touch the wire, that will very quickly heat the wire and the solder will wick into the strands. The flux and liquid solder on the tip allow for faster heat transfer to the wire being soldered.  Flux also helps in cleaning and wetting the metal being soldered

While that is taking place, take more solder and touch it to the top of the wire, which is now hot enough to melt that solder, and the added solder will wick into the wire giving you a nice complete solder joint.     Once you are happy with the way the joint looks, let it cool down making sure that nothing moves while the solder cools down and solidifies.   Best to use lead-based 60/40 or 63/47 electronic solder for its eutectic property.

As you have heard Gary: Better modeling through peer pressure. TM  :D

« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 03:04:16 PM by peteski »
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm puzzled!!!!

DKS

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11460
  • Your choice for ANAL...
  • Respect: +1976
    • DKS Home
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1685 on: May 16, 2019, 04:48:11 PM »
0
Speaking from experience, the above three posts explain all you need to know.

I will add, however, that if you're going to spend money on a new soldering iron, get a decent temperature-controlled rig (there are many brands from which to choose--I use XY-tronic), and three tips: a tiny pencil-tip (for soldering leads to SMD LEDs, circuit board work, etc.), a medium-sized chisel-tip (for general model soldering, like brass kit assembly, etc.), and the biggest tip you can get (for heavy-duty work, such as DCC bus line stuff). Even if you don't think you'd be doing any of the other stuff, you never know, and better to be prepared for any task.

Other topics include things like good flux--cue a post from @robert3985

Ah, but I dally on...

 
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 06:47:59 PM by David K. Smith »
"Life's a piece of sh!t when you look at it."
                                       —Monty Python

nuno81291

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 562
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +164
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1686 on: May 16, 2019, 05:52:33 PM »
0
Sorry to jump in here but I have a 25 watt iron, doesn’t do great with the 12 gauge bus I run either, not once in nearly 10 years however did I experience a loss in continuity with any of the thousands of feeders on 8+ layouts. Is it an excuse for ‘poor’ craftsmanship? If it works it works, and if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. My wiring may not be as neat as many on this board but it has been bullet proof. But by all means fix a problem you don’t have  ;)
Guilford Rail System in the 80s/90s

GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5480
  • Respect: +621
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1687 on: May 16, 2019, 05:55:39 PM »
+1
Umm, no offence, but I think y'all are over-reacting a bit to one Sasquatch-quality photo of one solder joint that looks a bit blobby.  It is in fact quite solid and experiences negligible thermal cycling, so it presents almost no risk, and is pretty easy to fix if it does fail.  (Dirty track is a much bigger reliability concern, fwiw.)

I have a nice temp-controlled digital station for all my smaller gauge work and I'm very confident in the hundreds of joints I've done with that iron.  (And I think I have a good handle on flux and tip tinning.)  But I'll happily look into a higher wattage pencil-type iron before I finish off the 12 ga. connections if it will work better than the Weller gun.  Anything to make a tedious task easier.  So thanks for that. 

And just in case anyone had the wrong idea: I fully intend to solder the rest of the joints (even though I've had zero issues with the joints that have so far just been wrapped & crimped).  It just hasn't been a priority compared to getting things up & running to see if they work from the standpoint of operations.

added - well said nuno.  ;)

DKS

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11460
  • Your choice for ANAL...
  • Respect: +1976
    • DKS Home
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1688 on: May 16, 2019, 05:56:18 PM »
0
Sorry to jump in here but I have a 25 watt iron, doesn’t do great with the 12 gauge bus I run either, not once in nearly 10 years however did I experience a loss in continuity with any of the thousands of feeders on 8+ layouts. Is it an excuse for ‘poor’ craftsmanship? If it works it works, and if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. My wiring may not be as neat as many on this board but it has been bullet proof. But by all means fix a problem you don’t have  ;)

It may not be a problem on the surface, but with the right tools, you can do a better job, and be ready for other tasks, some of which you may not expect...
"Life's a piece of sh!t when you look at it."
                                       —Monty Python

DKS

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11460
  • Your choice for ANAL...
  • Respect: +1976
    • DKS Home
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1689 on: May 16, 2019, 05:57:09 PM »
0
Umm, no offence, but I think y'all are over-reacting a bit to one Sasquatch-quality photo of one solder joint that looks a bit blobby.  It is in fact quite solid and experiences negligible thermal cycling, so it presents almost no risk, and is pretty easy to fix if it does fail.  (Dirty track is a much bigger reliability concern, fwiw.)

I have a nice temp-controlled digital station for all my smaller gauge work and I'm very confident in the hundreds of joints I've done with that iron.  (And I think I have a good handle on flux and tip tinning.)  But I'll happily look into a higher wattage pencil-type iron before I finish off the 12 ga. connections if it will work better than the Weller gun.  Anything to make a tedious task easier.  So thanks for that. 

And just in case anyone had the wrong idea: I fully intend to solder the rest of the joints (even though I've had zero issues with the joints that have so far just been wrapped & crimped).  It just hasn't been a priority compared to getting things up & running to see if they work from the standpoint of operations.

added - well said nuno.  ;)

Oh, well, then... tempest in a teapot, being agitated by folks unaware of the facts. Ignore us and carry on!
"Life's a piece of sh!t when you look at it."
                                       —Monty Python

GaryHinshaw

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5480
  • Respect: +621
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1690 on: May 16, 2019, 06:01:03 PM »
0
and the biggest tip you can get (for heavy-duty work, such as DCC bus line stuff).

Perhaps I'll just try to get a fat tip for my existing station.  Thx.

Other topics include things like good flux--cue a post from @robert3985

Please, no.  I know all about SuperSafe. ;)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 06:05:48 AM by GaryHinshaw »

peteski

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 21082
  • Gender: Male
  • Honorary Resident Curmudgeon
  • Respect: +1918
    • Coming (not so) soon...
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1691 on: May 16, 2019, 07:01:08 PM »
0
This was an interesting ideas exchange (for which I'm responsible).

I find it quite amusing that a world renowned astrophysicist, whose IQ is probably way higher than anyone here, and who wouldn't think of doing just "good enough" job when it comes to research about the Universe, doesn't mind cold solder solder joints on his toy train layout.   :D
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 11:54:35 PM by peteski »
--- Peteski de Snarkski

-"Look at me, I'm satirical!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm anal retentive!!!"
-"Look at me, I have the most posts evahhhh!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm snarky!!!!"
-"Look at me, I have OCD!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm a curmudgeon!!!!"
-"Look at me, I'm puzzled!!!!

James Costello

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1534
  • Respect: +156
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1692 on: May 16, 2019, 07:29:20 PM »
+1
Umm, no offence, but I think y'all are over-reacting a bit to one Sasquatch-quality photo of one solder joint that looks a bit blobby.  It is in fact quite solid and experiences negligible thermal cycling, so it presents almost no risk, and is pretty easy to fix if it does fail.  (Dirty track is a much bigger reliability concern, fwiw.)

I'm still shaking my head over it a day later....  :facepalm:
James Costello
Espee into the 90's

Point353

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1883
  • Respect: +338
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1693 on: May 16, 2019, 07:29:47 PM »
0
I find it quite amusing that a world renown astrophysicist, whose IQ is probably way higher than anyone here, and who wouldn't think of doing just "good enough" job when it comes to research about the Universe, doesn't mind cold solder solder joints on his toy train layout.   :D
Consider the possibility that he did it on purpose just to jump start your efforts to reach 30,000 posts.
(And did you mean to say world renowned astrophysicist?)
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 07:57:05 PM by Point353 »

Steveruger45

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 685
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +118
Re: Tehachapi, BC
« Reply #1694 on: May 16, 2019, 07:59:09 PM »
0
Consider the possibility that he did it on purpose just to to jump start your efforts to reach 30,000 posts.
(And did you mean to say world renowned astrophysicist?)

Ah, an Astro-physicist.   maybe wanting to test for a Big Bang perhaps  :D
Steve
Atascocita, Texas