Illinois Central/Canadian National in N scale

[S Class]

I think down the bottom near the yellow track for the abandoned branch maybe a passing siding? In my mind it seems logical if the train left the yard on the top and needed to reverse the locos around or to let the branch line train meet with an opposing number or to be overtaken by a priority train, would probably give some operational flexibility as well.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

If the train needed to meet an opposing train, or will be overtaken, I'd think it just wouldn't be cleared out of the yard with the other siding so close. Leave some space for "nothing".

[nscalemike]

Thanks for the thoughts so far!  Dave, I know what you mean by lack of creativity and just following a prototype.  I should have done that too.  My ideas are loosely based on some prototypes I've seen nearby, example, in Tuscola the UP and CSX mains merge to cross the CN on a single diamond.  They then share the same corrider the rest of the way through town.  My branch line is very close to the CN in champaign. The back up from the yard down the main about half a mile then down the branch line to switch industries.  Often times they will wait for a while on the branch just waiting for the main to clear.   Getting these ideas that I've picked up out of my mind and onto paper/track plans proved to be much harder then I thought though!

I also have to agree with Ed on the passing track at the branch turnout..  I am not looking for a complicated puzzle but don't want it to be too easy either.  I think I will be able to hold the local in the yard or one the branch until the main is clear.  I want to keep the 'open area.' 

I am all but set on the latest plan from David, but still open to any other ideas, suggestions, thoughts.

Mike 

[nscalemike]

David, would it be possible for you to re-post this plan with the turnout #'s included?

Thanks,
Mike

[DKS]

David, would it be possible for you to re-post this plan with the turnout #'s included?

Just hit refresh.

[nscalemike]

The Helix:

Prior to beginning trackwork on my second level I need to complete my helix, at least to that point.  This has been a major problem for me until this point.  I did lots of research on the topic prior to the decision to construct a multilevel layout and then again prior to beginning construction.  I understand that once complete this is one of the least accessible locations of a layout and if you have problems in a helix, one it'll always affect the quality of the operations and two it will be next to impossible to fix.  So, I set out to do the best job I could possibly do on it . . . .  and  . . . . . .  I failed. 

I thought I took my time, checked each joint, tested each level by running trains, etc, but as I progressed I was having constant derailments.  I tried to fix one joint but in doing so I only made it worse.  I left it as is for the entire winter, refusing to continue to move up (at this point I only had 2 levels done) but not real excited about taking it out either.  I continued to run trains, using what I had as a makeshift staging yard for my first level, but I was still having derailments.  Granted it was mostly with my 6 axle locomotives, but I can't very well model a modern mainline railroad without 6 axle power. 

Finally, last Friday I took it all out.  I started by removing down to the last problem.  I was going to reconstruct from there.  However, all that was left was my base level.  There was nothing really wrong with it, but I had cut it out with a jig saw, it wasn't equally round, and lots of bad cuts.  I had since acquired a circle router template, so I ended up replacing this base unit with a freshly cut, perfectly round, new plywood.  I used 1/2" sanded plywood for this:


I also decided on advice from others to solder all my rail joints on the second attempt, so I took some quick lessons over the weekend on that skill.  I then set out to rebuild with better skills and a better plan. 

Here's an image of the first level, with the first train trying out the new rails:


I cut 12 equal pieces out of 1/4" Birch plywood, each one approximately 12" long and they each have a 15 degree angle on either end.  I use 1X2 risers on each corner.  With the short pieces the 1/4" is plenty strong enough, especially for N scale.  I made sure to keep the risers on top of one another, just to help ensure there is no unnecessary pressure on the plywood.  I solder each rail joint, check for gauge, and test a train before moving on.  The outside track has a 20 1/8" radius and the inside is 18 1/4" radius.  My rise between each level is just shy of 2 1/4".  I am happy to report that in the last week I have replaced all the track that I removed plus some.  I have continued to run the same two train combos that gave me problems on attempt #1 and so far I haven't had even so much as a truck bounce.  Here is an image of what will probably be the two longest trains:

The BNSF coal runthrough is 24 cars long, about 9 1/2' long, and makes it up with two locos.  The stack train is longer, about 11 1/2' and three locos are needed to move it up.  It is also the heaviest train I think I'll have, those Walthers well cars weigh a ton and do not roll well at all. 

Only two more revolutions and I should reach my second level.  Then it'll be on to construct David's interchange town plan and some increased operating opportunities will soon follow.  I'm looking forward to it!

[John]

Looking good .. people are often afraid of helixes .. they shouldn't be

[cv_acr]

I don't think you're supposed to have two rotary couplers facing each other like that.

[conrail98]

Mike, it's looking good. How are you securing the spacers between levels as they seem to be stacked on top of each other, making screwing into them on both sides somewhat difficult? Thanks,

Phil

[cv_acr]

Mike, it's looking good. How are you securing the spacers between levels as they seem to be stacked on top of each other, making screwing into them on both sides somewhat difficult? Thanks,

Phil

I can't really speak for Mike but we do helices the same way at my club and the answer is carpenter's glue, top and bottom of the spacer block. A screw in the top can be put in to make sure that it can't get knocked out.

[nscalemike]

I don't think you're supposed to have two rotary couplers facing each other like that.

No, I don't think so either, I was just throwing them on the track real quick to run something and wasn't paying a lot of attention to those details yet, should fix it now though!

Mike, it's looking good. How are you securing the spacers between levels as they seem to be stacked on top of each other, making screwing into them on both sides somewhat difficult? Thanks,

Phil

They are stacked on top of one another.  I did so to help ensure the weight that they support is pretty much taken by the risers all the way down and not the plywood.  I screwed the base level to the frame.  From there, I glued the risers and plywood pieces together.  I put two dabs of wood glue on each riser, then a dab of hot glue in the center and attach it to the previous level.  Then I put wood glue on the tops of all four risers, put a dab of hot glue on one, then put the plywood down, hold for a moment, and continue to the next one.  I like using the hot glue along with the wood glue because the hot glue allows me to continue working without waiting for the wood glue to dry.  This produces very strong joints.  I was not able to reuse any of the pieces I took out because I couldn't cut through the glue so instead I had to cut the plywood out. 

[conrail98]

Thanks Mike and Chris. I've got a helix to build and I keep going back and forth on wood spacers or metal rods,

Phil

Note: I do not wish to hijack this thread into a helix building one, just wanted to see how Mike's was built with the stacked risers/spacers.

[cv_acr]

The nice thing about using spacers is that you automatically get a consistent spacing between levels without any adjustment and futzing around with nuts and washers. And once you have the bottom level grade properly figured out, each successive turn exactly matches it, so it's easy to have a consistent grade and deck separation the whole way.

[nscalemike]

The nice thing about using spacers is that you automatically get a consistent spacing between levels without any adjustment and futzing around with nuts and washers. And once you have the bottom level grade properly figured out, each successive turn exactly matches it, so it's easy to have a consistent grade and deck separation the whole way.

I'll second that.  I probably spent more time total getting that first level to where it needed to be as what I've spent the other levels combined.  I took the four sides, similar to the 12/3/6/9 hours on a clock, and put each riser up another 1/4 of my total rise.  I then went back and add risers in between those main four sides, checking, double checking, and checking again that I didn't create any high or low spots.  When that was all done I checked for level side to side, and some areas I had to shim up either the outside or inside.  Finally I took a level with a board equal to my riser clamped on one end and checked all the way around, being sure to stay exactly 180 degrees across from each side.  Once I confirmed that was level, I finally began track work on it.  The base is the key, get that right and everything else will fall into place nicely. 

I'm sure its not an issue, but I was afraid of bumping the metal rod type helix and causing damage, especially with how high mine will be, about 28" top to bottom.  You bump this beast and it's not going anywhere!

[Dave Schneider]

Mike,

The helix looks great! I don't see any power feeds to any of the tracks. Did you add any? That is a fair bit of track you have there and there should probably be some feeders. Having never built one of these things, I don't know about the best practices. Just a thought.

Best wishes, Dave