Illinois Central/Canadian National in N scale

[nscalemike]

One more thought real quick, what would happen if I switched the two turnouts for the branch. Instead of the turnout for the branch off the passing then the turnout for the industrial track, it would be only one turnout from the passing track followed by the turnout off to the branch.  I think I can then also move on and off the branch without needing to worry about a train being clear of the passing track.  Any ideas?

Mike

[DKS]

What are the turnout used in it for one.

Mostly #10s on the main (one #7, lower right) and a mix of #7s and #5s for the sidings, with one curved. I've re-rendered the image with captions; refresh the page to see them.

Second, is the long curve to help maximize the lengths of track or did you feel that would look better?

Both.

Will give further thought to the balance of your questions--hope others will chime in here.  Meanwhile, here's a variation to consider.
 

[GaryHinshaw]

Hmm, I'm not sure I can see much practical difference between the two turnout configurations.  But I'm having a bit of trouble following the schematic of the plan, and the ops concept for how the staging and the branch line interact with the rest of the layout.  Do you have a schematic that would help us see this better?

I like what you have in the photos though!

-Gary

[nscalemike]

Gary,  putting a schematic of what my crazy mind is trying to do might just work, so, I scratched something out in Photoshop.  It's rough but I hope it paints a little clearer picture of what I have in mind.  Thanks!



I tried to line the colors up with Davids plan

If you read it left to right (opposite how I drew it and how I always envisioned it) you begin with the double ended staging on level 3.  Staging will represent 'all points beyond' for the two ends of the line, north and south I guess since that's the way the IC ran, represented by towns A and E for now.  Then you take the helix down to level 2.  This is where we are working now.  The black is the mainline, red is CN yards, orange is the branch, green in the main/interchange lines of the ??? railway.  This is town C.  The branch line (orange) will go from Town C, through the backdrop and out to Town D.  The interlocking/interchange/staging that is green is a completely separate rail company line.  It will stage hidden behind a backdrop and only run through the Town C entering just before the interlocking area then it interchanges with CN in Town C.  I thought of both rail companies sharing the main line in town C, so it would split 'somewhere beyond' but in reality they share the same tracks all the way to staging on level 3.  This way, not only do I have an interchange, but it can be active and I can run some other power and what not.  Once you get past the interlocking area of the CN/??  the main continues to the helix where you go down to level 1.  There is an abandoned branch line, represented by yellow, that is only used for car storage now, then the division yard in Town B.  Next up is the helix back to level 3 and Town A. 

I think I just made this more confusing didn't I????

Let me know what you think, still open to changes
Mike

[DKS]

Now I have a much better idea of what you're after. May I suggest the following. I think you're trying to cram too much into one rather small corner of the layout. How about this: move the interchange yard to the other side of the layout. This leaves room to expand both the branchline terminal as well as the interchange yard.
 

[nscalemike]

David,
This is a very interesting idea, and something that I have thought about as well.  My initial concern is that the track that enters the helix beyond the new interchange yard must do so from the front of the layout, not the back as it shows now. It will be similar to the opposite side, as it circles clockwise up from level one, out to 2 and the reenters the helix one curve above where it exited and going in the same clockwise direction to level 3.  I know that will give me a half circle turn in just over 4' but I cant see any other way around it.  I could easily use this side of the layout for the interchange.  The only thing I had planned was one industry to help hide the half turn, then rural scenery.  I could probably sacrifice the rural scenery run for better operations and it would give my local run another town to stop in to switch.  Also, I do really like the crossing that this plan includes, but I will lose the run through traffic since it just stub ends at the aisle.  That being said, it does look a bit cleaner and simpler split up rather than all together. 

I would really love to hear some others ideas and thoughts on the two versions!

Thanks,
Mike

[Philip H]

well, how about moving the blue interchange track across to the other side, changing its orientation so it feeds the yard, rather then runs against it?  Then bring it the layout edge and use cassettes to build and tear down interchange trains.

[nscalemike]

Went to the mission control room (aka layout room) after lunch for a brief visual tour with some of David's plans.  The last one gave me another idea:



With this, I kept the helix direction clockwise, which has already been set.  But rather come out in the sweeping half turn on top, I changed and came out straight along the bottom.  I then kept an area intact for my rural running scene on the short leg.  I also kept the branch line turnout on this side too, but now its only one turnout off the main.  Then on the long leg I have about 4 extra feet, not a huge difference but maybe enough that it will work.  I kept the interchange track coming from the upper left corner, and interlocking at the start of the long leg, followed by the interchange yard and the branch yard.  Then it will continue into the helix straight along the back and into the clockwise turn.  One thing I haven't decided on yet though is would the industries be CN along the back wall and the ??? railway interchange yard be on the front, or will the CN just have the interchange yard and the ??? railway will control the industries along the back wall.  So many decisions!

The downsides:   1, Now the trains change direction between level 1 and 2.  Probably the only person who is going to notice it is me, but its something that I was warned about with helix and was trying to avoid.  2, the main operating area of level 2 is now directly over the main operating area of level 1.  99% of the time this probably wont be a problem, because I am mostly by myself here and have no other local operators that I know of.  But, if I did have a session with multiple people it will get crowded. 

The upsides:   1, longer area to work the yard area into.  2, Avoid the big half circle, and subsequent S curve from the helix and back along the upper wall.  3, Able to possible keep an isolated rural main line run.   4, Have all of the above, and able to run through trains for interchange service.

What I envision with this operation wise would be my local would run from the yard on level one, up to two, pass the branch and work the town where the interchange is.  Either the local or a dedicated branch run would move engine first back towards and past the branch turnout, then back down the branch line.  All the turnouts on the branch would be the same so there would be no run around moves.  A caboose would be required because of the long back up move.  When the branch work is completed it would pull engine first back onto the main, then back around to the yard. 

David, can I talk you into cleaning this drawing up and tossing in a few industries?

Thanks, and as always, I would really like to hear your opinions!

Mike

[nscalemike]

One more thought, sorry but my mind is processing ideas very quickly right now.

If the two railroads are sharing trackage rights through my town, then it probably would be feasible that they could also share yard rights.  Therefore, I could probably put everything in one yard.  I'd need my main, a passing track, one track for ??? railway interchange, one track for CN interchange, and one track for the branch line.  It would be 3 main yard tracks, then whatever else would be needed to make it flow right.  Would this work?

[DKS]

[nscalemike]

Wow, there is something about that plan I do like,  simple track arrangement (looks prototypical) and long tracks, plus nice scenery options on the other side still.

Any thoughts from anyone ref the pro/cons that I mentioned?

Thanks David!

Mike

[nscalemike]

I've had a chance to review this plan closer today and still thinking I may like it the best.  I am slightly concerned still about my con list I mentioned earlier, mainly the reverse direction of trains and the operating area of both levels being stacked on top of one another, but I am thinking of compromising those issues to have the better operating/scenery potential.

A couple questions on this plan.  On the left where the blue track meets with the main, what would the purpose of the first turnout and the connecting short track?  Is it just a runaround or would it serve another purpose?  Also, on the right side, is it possible to move the second curved turnout from the main to the passing track and third track?  And it the stub track above those only the lead for the industrial trackage?  It looks like if you wanted to move a cut of cars to or from the third track you would have to foul the main.  I figured the black would be the main, the first blue is passing (to remain open) and the third and fourth would be the interchange/branch line storage, correct?

Thanks, mike

[DKS]

On the left where the blue track meets with the main, what would the purpose of the first turnout and the connecting short track?

You tell me--it appears on your pencil sketch. Looks to me as if it would allow someone to work the industrial trackage and still be able to use the mainline runaround.

Also, on the right side, is it possible to move the second curved turnout from the main to the passing track and third track?

I'll try--the geometry of that part of the plan is really hairy.

And it the stub track above those only the lead for the industrial trackage?

Yes.

It looks like if you wanted to move a cut of cars to or from the third track you would have to foul the main.

Use the other end, the line that leads to the staging yard.

I figured the black would be the main, the first blue is passing (to remain open) and the third and fourth would be the interchange/branch line storage, correct?

Yep.

[nscalemike]

You tell me--it appears on your pencil sketch. Looks to me as if it would allow someone to work the industrial trackage and still be able to use the mainline runaround.

why yes it is, and now I remember that track.  I copied that track part from the MR plan and everytime I look at that plan I wonder what it would be used for there as well.  I guess I could probably take it out, or leave it too.

[Dave Schneider]

It seems like that track would allow for trains coming out of staging to have another choice of yard track. I would leave it in as it provides additional operational flexibility and looks natural.

Sorry to not offer more feedback to this process. It seems like it is mostly a conversation between you and David. I am having a hard time grasping the overall concept. I tend to be super grounded in specific prototype scenes as I want to replicate buildings as closely as I can. This is just the way I think, and I am not that creative in piecing together a concept comprised of various elements. I do like what David has done here with the broad sweeping lines.

I really recommend the AnyRail software that David is using to generate these plans. I picked up a copy last week ($50) for myself for father's day and it is super easy to use. It would be nice to get more people using this software. We could exchange plans or track elements  so that way David doesn't have to do all the work . You might want to consider giving this a try. They have a free trail version that lets you do everything but just limits how many track elements you can use. It is very helpful in exploring different track geometries and seeing what will fit.

Best wishes, Dave