Author Topic: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...  (Read 10191 times)

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mcjaco

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2011, 09:58:52 AM »
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Every time this topic comes up it makes me laugh a little bit as it somehow devolves into MR having something against N scale. Honestly I think N scale is far, far smaller group of modelers than our immediate sphere of influence here would indicate. For many people in the model railroading hobby it comes at a later point in life and smaller scales like N and Z are not easy on the fingers or the eyes and take some getting used to. The equipment available compared to HO is nowhere near as prolific and given that HO represents the largest bulk of the modelers out there, MR caters to those readers. Sure, more HO related advertisers mean MR will try to work a few more of those products into their layouts and projects. That's made even easier when MR's biggest layout project is an HO layout at their office.

I still believe firmly that MR is still valuable to me as most of their how-to and project pieces transfer to other scales. Add in their demanding standards of modeling and photography and I can find a reason to buy it. The rest of my modeling skills are honed by trying new things and getting feedback in forums like this one.

Now where did I leave my beer... :)

Hear, hear!
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Brakie

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2011, 10:46:47 AM »
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Every time this topic comes up it makes me laugh a little bit as it somehow devolves into MR having something against N scale. Honestly I think N scale is far, far smaller group of modelers than our immediate sphere of influence here would indicate. For many people in the model railroading hobby it comes at a later point in life and smaller scales like N and Z are not easy on the fingers or the eyes and take some getting used to. The equipment available compared to HO is nowhere near as prolific and given that HO represents the largest bulk of the modelers out there, MR caters to those readers. Sure, more HO related advertisers mean MR will try to work a few more of those products into their layouts and projects. That's made even easier when MR's biggest layout project is an HO layout at their office.

I still believe firmly that MR is still valuable to me as most of their how-to and project pieces transfer to other scales. Add in their demanding standards of modeling and photography and I can find a reason to buy it. The rest of my modeling skills are honed by trying new things and getting feedback in forums like this one.

Now where did I leave my beer... :)

Sorry no hear! hear! here.

Actually its not funny unless you want to be treated like a low class modeler and keep mum about such incorrect  information..

The HO guys would scream their heads of if that was about HO and justly so..I also suspect the Lionel guys would scream just as loud.

Now if we  N Scalers scream that's funny?

What's wrong with that picture or are we expected to keep mum,smile and say "Thank You MR!"?

MR still carries a lot of weight in their columns,articles and whatever new tend they decide to push..
Larry

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cv_acr

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2011, 11:02:59 AM »
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IMO, the perfect way MR could redeem itself is to embrace N scale in a major way, with all its challenges that reach beyond the 'beginner' concept range, and create a new project layout that highlights how easy it is to overcome most of them. The Clinchfield embraced some of N scale's assets and MR certainly didn't present it as oh-so-difficult then, when product was less available and technologies not so developed. Why not take that up a notch? I'm not talking about something like its Wisconsin Central, which was basically presented as a shrunk down HO layout, but a feature that ran with the long train, big industry, expansive scenery, portability benefits of N. Yes, it should point out the challenges of N (in part as a clear hint to manufacturers of how to proceed) but not with the woeful tone of Kelly's piece.

I have some old MR issues that feature that WC layout, and that was a nice layout. Nothing wrong with that.

Bendtracker1

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2011, 12:15:00 PM »
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I have some old MR issues that feature that WC layout, and that was a nice layout. Nothing wrong with that.

Chris,
Do you remember which MR issues featured that layout? Or does anybody know of a link to that layout?

I remember seeing a MR sponsored N scale layout at the 1997 NMRA National in Madison, WI.  Just don't remember if it based on the WC, although it sounds right.

Allen...

sirenwerks

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2011, 12:57:47 PM »
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I have some old MR issues that feature that WC layout, and that was a nice layout. Nothing wrong with that.

I'm not remarking it wasn't a nice layout, it wasn't remarkable. Where the Clinchfield layout showed off some of the assets of N (especially the portability aspect) the WC layout didn't really comment on any aspect that makes N scale special. Ergo, it felt like a shrunk down nondescript HO layout.
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lashedup

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2011, 01:27:44 PM »
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IMO, the perfect way MR could redeem itself is to embrace N scale in a major way, with all its challenges that reach beyond the 'beginner' concept range, and create a new project layout that highlights how easy it is to overcome most of them. The Clinchfield embraced some of N scale's assets and MR certainly didn't present it as oh-so-difficult then, when product was less available and technologies not so developed. Why not take that up a notch? I'm not talking about something like its Wisconsin Central, which was basically presented as a shrunk down HO layout, but a feature that ran with the long train, big industry, expansive scenery, portability benefits of N. Yes, it should point out the challenges of N (in part as a clear hint to manufacturers of how to proceed) but not with the woeful tone of Kelly's piece.

Sorry, I haven't read the Jim Kelly piece specifically yet as I don't have a copy of the latest issue. I'll have to take a look and see.

I guess the question regarding the earlier part of your post is whether you felt that the entire David Popp buildout series on his N scale layout was worthwhile? I'm not sure why that has been overlooked. Likewise they did that Salt Lake 4x8 with Kato equipment that certainly underscores how easy it can be to build something in N scale. It kinda represents both ends of the spectrum in a way. David Popp is talking about greatly expanding his layout and that could provide a lot more N scale coverage. Overall though given all the scales they have to cover, I think they generally do a good job. Is it perfect? No way. Could it be better in some ways? Absolutely. I just think they get pulled a lot of different directions and overall (and I think obviously to an extent) they are going to primarily feature HO related content as that is the biggest market.

wm3798

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2011, 02:36:31 PM »
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Any time David Popp's work is covered in MR, I run to the newsstand to get a copy.  You could say I'm a groupie.  He's got all the earmarks of a true a$$hat, from his approach to modeling, layout design, and operations, to the tone and competency of his writing.  While he may not be pushing the boundaries of N scale the way Odegard did, he does an outstanding job of representing the possibilities that exist in N.

...and David, if you happen to be lurking, a$$hat is a compliment!

...and we have a lot of Davids here anyway, so no one would notice if you dropped in periodically... ;)

Lee
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wazzou

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2011, 02:40:34 PM »
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Stalker.  :-*
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sirenwerks

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2011, 05:17:20 PM »
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I guess the question regarding the earlier part of your post is whether you felt that the entire David Popp buildout series on his N scale layout was worthwhile? I'm not sure why that has been overlooked. Likewise they did that Salt Lake 4x8 with Kato equipment that certainly underscores how easy it can be to build something in N scale. It kinda represents both ends of the spectrum in a way. David Popp is talking about greatly expanding his layout and that could provide a lot more N scale coverage. Overall though given all the scales they have to cover, I think they generally do a good job. Is it perfect? No way. Could it be better in some ways? Absolutely. I just think they get pulled a lot of different directions and overall (and I think obviously to an extent) they are going to primarily feature HO related content as that is the biggest market.

I like Popp's articles. Like Lee said, he's not pushing limits, but he's done a fine job and I look forward to seeing more. My comment was aimed at those who counted the Popp piece as one in the N scale column. Granted, Popp's layout is N and was featured in the article, but the topic of the article - operations - is not specific to N, so I didn't see it as a major victory for N. If Popp had touted the benefits of N and smaller scales, because they allow more operations to occur, I might have a different outlook.

I can understand easily that MR's not publishing a lot of N because its solicitations in N are minimal. But don't hack it. To me that fact just points out that N scalers are largely a different demographic than other scales - most likely younger, still working, with limited time to model let alone write. NSR and NSM are in an excellent place to capitalize on that presumption given these modelers are 'growing up' with them, but they'll need to compete with outlets such as Railwire and N Scale Limited, which offer convenience.

The problem there is, N scale is heading underground in some major marketers' eyes because they, the marketers, are losing the ease of access to the market; and they're lazy in that regard, or too out of touch to see. PIC, Walthers. Facebook is not exactly going to get Wally access to the deeper market. Atlas, MT and newer manufacturers have got it and are engaging in two-way communication via outlets such as Railwire. N scalers have access. Wally's Facebook page allows them to gain approval on their ideas, but not have ideas presented to them publicly. And I just took the discussion in a strange turn... sorry.
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Brakie

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2011, 06:13:00 PM »
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Atlas,Athearn,ExactRail,BLMA can also be found on facebook and all will reply to questions or concerns.

I was told by ExactRail there are "several exciting N Scale releases" for 2011.We know the 64' Trinity reefer is one but,what the others are remains a mystery and could be reruns..


Sadly the waffle boxcar isn't planned. :(
Larry

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John

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2011, 06:13:29 PM »
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but they'll need to compete with outlets such as Railwire and N Scale Limited, which offer convenience.


I don't think they have anything to worry about .. RW will be gone long before MR

SkipGear

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2011, 06:56:57 PM »
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I still don't see the reason for attacks of anti N scale bias against MR. I just had the oportunity last weekend to go through a couple hundered old copies in sorting them for storage. They ranged from the late 60's to current and as I sorted, I noticed that just about every front cover had some reference or another to N scale. When I flipped through a few of the mags, yes there is more HO, but nowhere was a negative tone toward N. I just don't see it.

I think many of you have a persecusion complex. Because they don't mention N as much as you think they should, does not mean they are anti-N. If that was the case then they would be even more anti garden, O, S, and Z than they are N. None are mentioned as much as N and HO in the mag. Just try to find an article about S scale in the MR, they are rarer than honest reviews in the mag.

Instead of bellyaching, why don't those that are complaining do something to promote the scale? Start by building that stupendous layout and get it in the magazines, then you can show everybody how it is supposed to be done. It doesn't have to be big, just complete. That would be more than most of the layouts in Model Railroader. Most of they belly aching on here is done by people with nothing to show or contribute. You notice that the guys that are content with the magazine and its content have opperational layouts and spend more time working on their stuff than complaining.

I have a friend that is doing his part, so much so that MR actually came to him to ask if they could run an article on his N scale layout. It's a couple of months away as he is trying to finish one of the key scenes before Lou Sassi come to town to do the photo shoot. I've been scrambling high and low trying to round up some oddball detail parts for him so that he can wrap some projects up.


PS. It will probably get trashed around here because it is C80 but at least it is fully ballasted, unlike half the layouts of any scale in MR.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2011, 07:00:43 PM by SkipGear »
Tony Hines

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2011, 09:17:30 PM »
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Any time David Popp's work is covered in MR, I run to the newsstand to get a copy.  You could say I'm a groupie.  He's got all the earmarks of a true a$$hat, from his approach to modeling, layout design, and operations, to the tone and competency of his writing.  While he may not be pushing the boundaries of N scale the way Odegard did, he does an outstanding job of representing the possibilities that exist in N.

...and David, if you happen to be lurking, a$$hat is a compliment!

...and we have a lot of Davids here anyway, so no one would notice if you dropped in periodically... ;)

Lee

I endorse this message, david cover feature (what was it october '08? or there abouts) is one of my favourite issues and my major complaint was the lack of more pages of photos - something I would like MR and other to evolve towards being a visual rather than textual person.

David is doing IMHO a very good job of showing just what is available and is capable in N and MR do act in the interests of their advertisers the Salt lake route - a N scale project layout covering several issues last year no less - made with unitrack is a good example of this. now I don't like unitrack myself (not going to start that fight here) but it, as a product shows just how quick it is to get into N for the novice modeler. The fact I have seen about 5 layouts based on this design on various forums over the year is testament to this, Yeah, sure KATO paid for the entire thing but that's no different to how Walthers seems to have a kit in every step by step column.

Just so I can take this thread off topic a bit more why does everyone constantly bemoan wally world? I'd wager that 65% of the kits available to me down under are wally kits and, while not superfragalistic, do serve as a good basis for the novice to cut their teeth on. yes HO has more kits but if that is really such an issue start your own business and make your own, it's business and their prerogative at the end of the day who they want to cater for and if there is such a hole in the market show some donald trump.
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Tony A

Brakie

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #58 on: April 27, 2011, 09:25:20 PM »
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Tony,I think you missed the point..Kelly's article could do serious damage since he made it sound like N Scale needed a lot of work so it would run.It takes him 30 minutes to regauge wheels on one of his locomotives and every one of his locomotive has wheels out of gauge ???!!!!

I never had to regauge a set of wheels.

I'll guarantee if Kelly said that about HO the HO guys would be screaming "foul!"on every forum.
Larry

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Glenn Poole

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Re: Model Railroader and the Modern N Scaler...
« Reply #59 on: April 27, 2011, 09:52:42 PM »
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....I never had to regauge a set of wheels.

I have hundred of locos and also have never had to regauge a set of wheels.
Glenn