WM Western Lines Engineering Report

[seusscaboose]

yeah, i guess my question was 2 pronged... 

1) if you have people there, you have the whole attention span issue/keeping people busy (at least somewhat) with jobs (after all, that's the point right?) which (for me) has been tricky.

2) if you have people there, how much space do you have for people to move.  I had to ultimatley move my A/D tracks in Bellevue to the east to facilitate upper level operators.  I have a space issue that i didnt consider in my track planning and honestly, it wasnt even a consideration at the time...   I went from "casual dude who loves ta run trainz", to "what the hell is op's, i'll try it" and now I am  "how to do Op's better because i kinda like it" mode.  All the while, Operator comfort is never a concern (lol).  My vision is that you have 4 people (perfect) or 6 people (ugh oh) to 7 or 8 (oh my, katie bar the door) crammed in there.  So that was my only point... to consider the number of people needed, then where to stage those bodies, all whilst keeping the WM running efficiently.

[sirenwerks]

Sign me up for local crew. I'd say hostler too, but I am still tres novice with the DCC and would end up asking way too many questions and annoying those around me (not that I don't do that already).

[seusscaboose]

Sign me up for local crew. I'd say hostler too, but I am still tres novice with the DCC and would end up asking way too many questions and annoying those around me (not that I don't do that already).

it is even easier than my place...  Lee's not running Digitrax...   life is simple on the eastern shore in MANY ways...  DCC being one of them.

[sirenwerks]

DCC throttles are just not (yet) intuitive. I guess I don't play enough (any) video games or use phone cue systems often enough.

[Bendtracker1]

DCC throttles are just not (yet) intuitive. I guess I don't play enough (any) video games or use phone cue systems often enough.

I started with Digitrax in '98 with the superchief and the DT100 throttles.....those throttles were a giant PIA!  You had to push a sequence of two buttons to get to the next command then two more buttons before having to dial the knobs to call up a loco or chip.  I always had a hard time remembering the sequences.  When the DT300 and DT400's came out, it was a godsend!  Most all of the commands were done with a single push of one button.

For example: To MU two locos, you select the right throttle [or knob] by rotating it a bit, then punch in the LOCO [or chip] number with the number pad and hit the LOCO button again, it's then acquired.  Then you can repeat that process for the second loco on the left knob.  To MU them, you press the MU button and select the YES button and your ready with two locos on the one button.

Most of the commands are done that way, simple one button commands.  Once you play with them for awhile, it gets easier.  I've heard that the NCE controls are a little easier to use.

Now I haven't played with the DT402's yet as I have no need for any of the sound or special effects.  I've kept my life simple so far.  ;D

But the basic ops are relatively easy now.  I just wish the screens were a little bigger.
Allen...

[John]

The last ops session I was at - before the recent buildout - it was crowded with 6 people in there .. now that the layout has gotten bigger - I don't see how you can support all that .. the dispatcher has got to go .. into the other room - and maybe do both ends ..

[cv_acr]

For example: To MU two locos, you select the right throttle [or knob] by rotating it a bit, then punch in the LOCO [or chip] number with the number pad and hit the LOCO button again, it's then acquired.  Then you can repeat that process for the second loco on the left knob.  To MU them, you press the MU button and select the YES button and your ready with two locos on the one button.

Wow that sounds awkward. Especially if you want to do more than 2 engines. Or set up a consist with one throttle and then run it with a different throttle.

Most of the commands are done that way, simple one button commands.  Once you play with them for awhile, it gets easier.  I've heard that the NCE controls are a little easier to use.

We use NCE at my club, and it's pretty straightword.
To select a single engine, just hit "Select Loco" and punch in the address of the engine (if the layout owner has any sense, it'll be the same as the number painted on the model).
To select a consist that's already set up, just do the above with the number of the lead engine, or you can punch in the consist address instead (if you know it).

And running is easy. Faster, Slower, Reverse.

Setting up a consist is pretty straightforward too. "Setup consist", enter an address for the consist, then enter all the engine numbers and directions. You can consist as many engines as you want really quickly.
And for newbies, just get someone to help you set up the consist if required (any train from staging should already be set up in advance of the session) and once that's set up, you're off to the races.

[davefoxx]

The last ops session I was at - before the recent buildout - it was crowded with 6 people in there .. now that the layout has gotten bigger - I don't see how you can support all that .. the dispatcher has got to go .. into the other room - and maybe do both ends ..

John's right.  When I read earlier about the suggestion of a six-person minimum for ops on the WM, I thought to myself that Lee's train room is a six-person maximum at best, or else operators will be tripping over each other.  That new peninsula, as evidenced by Lee's recent before and after pictures, really cut down aisle width around the new yard.

In other words, thankfully, there's no room for Steve to sit behind me, annoying the sh*t out of me, while he's reading a magazine rather than being helpful during an ops session.  (There exists photographic evidence of this ops session.)  I finally gave him a throttle to get him to move.   

DFF

[Bendtracker1]

Wow that sounds awkward. Especially if you want to do more than 2 engines. Or set up a consist with one throttle and then run it with a different throttle. 

To select a single engine, just hit "Select Loco" and punch in the address of the engine (if the layout owner has any sense, it'll be the same as the number painted on the model).
To select a consist that's already set up, just do the above with the number of the lead engine, or you can punch in the consist address instead (if you know it).

Actually the way you described it [I probably didn't describe it eloquently as you did] is pretty much the same way.  Sounds like NCE might be a step or two quicker.  But it's pretty much the same thing. 

As for more than two units, you just keep calling up the next engine and add them to the consist.  The DT400 has two knobs on the same throttle, this way you can have the consist on one knob/throttle and use the other knob/throttle to call up the second, third or more locos on the same DT400 and keep adding the units.  Once their setup, you just need to dial up the lead unit or the first loco in the consist.  Of course you need to make sure their all running in the same direction before consisting them.

Once the consist is made, you can "DISPATCH" [the consist is made up, then is released so anyone can dial it up] the consist so anyone else can dial up the lead loco or consist number with his/her own throttle, or anyone can "STEAL" the consist by dialing up the lead number and it will show "STEAL??", then you just press "Y" and away you go.

It really doesn't sound much different, other than a few keystrokes or pushes of the buttons.

 
 

[sirenwerks]

.. the dispatcher has got to go .. into the other room - and maybe do both ends ..

I'm surprised no one mentioned how awkward that sounded too.

[wm3798]

Well, one thing you'll notice in the new configuration is that there is actually MORE floor space to work with.  The larger layout actually allows more of the ancillary crap to be stored out of harm's way, plus, the work bench, which once commandeered about 25% of the room, is now out in the other room.  This was a MAJOR consideration of the redesign.  All of the yard clerkin' and dispatch work can be done by people sitting on the one side, with plenty of room for the yard master to work the throats.  (Does this edge up there with the "working both ends" comment?)

The only real choke point might be conflicts between the Elkins operator and the west end of Ridgeley, but given the lighter density of work at Elkins, this could feasibly be the same person.
Here's the track plan (more or less) as a reference.


Also, let's not forget that the last time we had a real mob up there, we were still working around a lot of Andy's furniture, toys, and probably Andy too.  The aisles are all very accommodating, even of us full figured N scalers.

As for DCC, Digitrax continues to confound me.  I have MRC prodigy advance, which follows the same simple protocols as NCE.  About the only head scratcher is why you have to reset the speed steps to 128 every time you call up a new locomotive.  But that's simple enough anyway.  Maybe the newer versions have a way to set 128 as a default.  (Maybe mine does too, only it's shrouded in that mysterious booklet that came with it...)

Anyway, one goal will be to tidy up the workbench area on the other side of the door to create a more inviting crew lounge, that done, I think a max crew of 8 with a few rotations will work out fine.  I don't want to put the dispatcher in the next room, because that would require either a significant systems upgrade, or a cable to carry the necessary communications to a remote control panel.  Plus, even when I'm dispatching, I like to watch the trains too.

It may come to pass that I can have an A crew and B crew, so I can have more ops sessions with more people.

Lee

[Philip H]

Having been in the room after the penninsula build-out, and with some of the yard/staging benchwork on the "right" side in place, I am  not worried about the space issues.  Ed will be largely confined to the visible yard, Brian will likely be stationary on the paper mill, and there is enough room for four or five other engineers to run the rest of Lee's trains as he has outlined them.

[wm3798]

Yes, but just to make sure, we'll be stocking diet shakes in the fridge instead of beer...

[Dave Schneider]

Yes, but just to make sure, we'll be stocking diet shakes in the fridge instead of beer...

Those mix well with Vodka....

Best wishes, Dave

[wm3798]

After two nights of successful multi train operations, I decided to bite the bullet and start installing the yard.  Tonight I got the switches in for the back half of the class yard.  I decided to run the piano wire actuators to the front edge of the deck, where I've installed some Caboose Industries throws temporarily.  I've got some slide switches around somewhere, but couldn't put my hands on them tonight.  With all the throws located along the edge, they'll be easy enough to replace.  Ultimately the frogs will all get wired, and there will be a secondary bus line to tie the slide switches in.

I've also still got to run power to the round house tracks in order to make the engine terminal fully functional.  The A/D tracks and ET ready tracks are all working, but there are a couple of dead spots that will need drops, too.

I'll try to pop some pictures tomorrow once the glue dries.
Lee