Atlas Code 55 Curved Turnouts

[John]

Dave .. I agree they can be fixed .. 40 years ago, we took what we could get ..  but we shouldn't have to .. not in 2011 ..

[davefoxx]

It took me about 10 minutes to file the points down so all equipment runs through reliably without picking.  While I agree this shouldn't happen on supposedly quality track like this, I've seen a lot worse in my 40+ years in N.  I'm not the world's most skilled modeler, either.  In other words, if I could fix them, pretty much anyone with some needle files could.  Hopefully Atlas will ensure this problem doesn't recur in the future.

In my case, filing wouldn't fix all of the problems.  Just beyond the points, the gauge was so wide that wheels were falling between the rails (yes, the wheelsets were in gauge).  I cut off the spikeheads and tried to squeeze the rails together, but I couldn't get them in gauge without fear of breaking something.  I'm not saying a better modeler couldn't make them work, but, for me, there was more work involved trying to fix the turnouts than to build one of my own from scratch.

DFF

[Van Horne]

John, I agree with you that we shouldn't have to fix these.  My point was simply that, in most cases, it could be done.  I only said this because some posters seemed to feel this type of deficiency would lead to the end of life as we know it, LOL!

Dave, I am fortunate that my two do not have gauging problems between the points and stock rails.  As  you say, that could potentially be much more difficult to fix.

Dave

[davefoxx]

Dave, I am fortunate that my two do not have gauging problems between the points and stock rails.  As  you say, that could potentially be much more difficult to fix.

Here's a crappy picture to give you an idea of what I was talking about in my last post.  This picture was taken after I cut off the spikeheads, squeezed the rails together, and re-secured them with CA.  This is the best that I could do, and it still wouldn't fit the NMRA gauge.



Dave Foxx

[DKS]

There are plenty of N scale products that could use some after-market tweaking. It would, after all, be prohibitively expensive (and unreasonable) to have every aspect of a model perfect.

Except for track. This is the exception. Track simply must work properly right out of the box. Customers cannot be "beta testers" for a manufacturer of track, or be expected to tweak the track to get it to function properly. And given that plenty of track products already work fine, we know it's possible. There's just no excuse for this; Atlas simply has to correct this, or their customer base will begin to erode, not to mention their reputation.

[Cory Rothlisberger]

Mr. Foxx - What FVM wheel sets are you using that fall between the rails in the section that you're having trouble with? Reason I ask is that I can't get this to happen. We picked up a whole series of 33" and 36" FVM wheels to test and even though yes, the area just past the points is slightly out of gauge (mainly due to the geometry of the turnout), the wheel treads are still wide enough to not allow the wheel set to drop in the gauge.

Mr. Smith - We do actually Beta Test track, especially turnouts. A pair of these curved turnouts have been on a friend's layout for probably the past two years now. They continually see use and regular operation and he has had very few problems. His main problems came from longer rolling stock with body mounted couplers.

Anyways, I'm not discounting everyone's reviews. I'm sure there are some lemons out there, but we wouldn't approve a final sample for production if wheel sets were falling into the gauge all the time. That's just not acceptable by any means. The points on the right hand turnout, now that's another story. Those are getting reworked as we speak.

[seusscaboose]

Cory,

Thank you for chiming in here.  I am glad to see the manufacturer feedback.  

One request.  If you happen to do a new design or change to the design, is it possible to expand your beta testing of track (switches) to a few more concerned individuals who have taken the time to assist with proactive and productive feedback (I am sure you can identify those individuals).

It likely wouldn't add to the product development time since you are already doing it.  Simply expanding (or even changing) the beta test occasionly might be something to consider.

Just a thought.

Eric

[johnhale]

Cory,
   I am with Eric. None of this thread was intended as a bash toward Atlas. We are all very happy with the products Atlas is turning out (including code 55 track).

   The purpose of this thread was simply to make sure the information (being fueled by rumors) about the Code 55 curved turnouts was as accurate as possible.

   If there is anyway we can be of assistance, please let us know and we will do whatever we can to make a better product.

John

[davefoxx]

Mr. Foxx - What FVM wheel sets are you using that fall between the rails in the section that you're having trouble with? Reason I ask is that I can't get this to happen. We picked up a whole series of 33" and 36" FVM wheels to test and even though yes, the area just past the points is slightly out of gauge (mainly due to the geometry of the turnout), the wheel treads are still wide enough to not allow the wheel set to drop in the gauge.

Cory,

Thanks for your response and attempts to address this issue.  It's certainly possible that I got a real bad lemon on this one particular turnout, although multiple turnouts were giving me fits.  I didn't take the opportunity to really go over the other six curved turnouts that I had, because this one took so much of my attention.  I became so frustrated with it that I gave up and pulled them all up.

I use FVM 33" wheelsets for MT (0.540 axle) and Atlas cars (0.553 axle).  If memory serves me correctly, though, before I attempted to regauge the turnout, everything was derailing through this turnout, including locomotives, e.g., Atlas GP38 and GP7 with wheels regauged (widened) to the wide side of "in gauge."

Thanks,
Dave

[davefoxx]

Cory,
   I am with Eric. None of this thread was intended as a bash toward Atlas. We are all very happy with the products Atlas is turning out (including code 55 track).

   The purpose of this thread was simply to make sure the information (being fueled by rumors) about the Code 55 curved turnouts was as accurate as possible.

   If there is anyway we can be of assistance, please let us know and we will do whatever we can to make a better product.

John

For the record, I hope that no one has interpreted any of my posts as Atlas-bashing.  I do not intend nor do I want to do that.  I have been careful, I think, to choose my words, so to not appear as non-productive, unconstructive bashing.  Most of my fleet consists of Atlas products and a good portion of my HCD layout remains Atlas code 55 (#5 and #7 turnouts and flextrack).  I have only run into one serious problem with one product: the curved turnout.  I am not boycotting, nor do I want anyone else to boycott or otherwise bash Atlas because of this.  I hope that the information that I have provided is merely used as constructive criticism and an attempt to help a manufacturer address some problems with a specific product.  Ideally, this will help lead to a correction of the issues and then many modelers will benefit from the improvements to this highly desired product by many N scalers.

Dave Foxx

[Cory Rothlisberger]

For the record, I hope that no one has interpreted any of my posts as Atlas-bashing.  I do not intend nor do I want to do that.  I have been careful, I think, to choose my words, so to not appear as non-productive, unconstructive bashing.  Most of my fleet consists of Atlas products and a good portion of my HCD layout remains Atlas code 55 (#5 and #7 turnouts and flextrack).  I have only run into one serious problem with one product: the curved turnout.  I am not boycotting, nor do I want anyone else to boycott or otherwise bash Atlas because of this.  I hope that the information that I have provided is merely used as constructive criticism and an attempt to help a manufacturer address some problems with a specific product.  Ideally, this will help lead to a correction of the issues and then many modelers will benefit from the improvements to this highly desired product by many N scalers.

Dave Foxx

In no way do I think you're trying to bash. We need the feedback to make products better. The fact that someone is claiming that their entire wheel set is dropping between the gauge is a pretty serious/extreme issue. I really wish I could have seen the turnout before you modified it to see what was going on. For something to drop in at the point that you're showing, it would have to be at least 0.050" out of gauge. That's hard for anyone to miss. Just for a little design information for anyone using these. The gauge just past the ends of the points is 0.364" +/-0.004. So you're going to find that it is a the extreme high end of the NMRA standard and if you press hard enough, you will get the NMRA gauge to drop in. But even still, you're equipment will still work.

[davefoxx]

Thanks, Cory.  Yeah, as I wrote I did a lot of modifications to this turnout to try to get it to work.  I'll see if I can get the CA to release and let the rails go back against the outer spikeheads.  If so, it would give a representation of what I originally found.

DFF

[DKS]

Cory, just to be clear, I'm not "bashing" either. I hold Atlas in very high regard, and I'm very interested in this particular product for a number of reasons, one of which is I do a lot of track planning for other people, and these switches are really useful. However, I have a hard time recommending their use when I see things like this:

After Dave posted to A-Board a grabbed the one turnout I have and took a couple pictures.



You can clearly see that the rail ends are blunt. The gauge along the point rails is also .020" under the nominal rail gauge.

Also, the point end of the turnout isn't square.



Mine had a bend point rail as well.



Jason

So I think it would be really good for quite a lot of folks to see this resolved.

[wcfn100]

Well while we're talking c55 turnouts and have Cory's attention, I'd like to pick a nit.

I went to see if I could replace the point rail with regular rail stock and I ran into what I think is a design flaw with the line of c55 turnouts.

The diverting rail doesn't break away at an angle where the point rail starts.  There is just a constant or smooth radius. 



There are three issues I can associate with this.

1. There is no way to hold a constant rail gauge.  It has to narrow if the point rail is straight and the diverting rail has a curve.

2.  It's the reason you have to have such a frail point rail to that side and also why the notch is so deep in the stock rail.   I was basically unable to use a stock rail as the point because I can file the rail thin enough to be used.

3.  I think it's a contributor to why the #5 turnouts curve at the point end (maybe others?).  A bend in the rail could alleviate some of the pressure the rail is putting on the ties trying to straighten out.



Jason