Conrail - Boston Line

[conrail98]

Ian, if I remember your old plan, there was a lift-out at the bottom of the stairs, correct? Could you wrap the IT tracks around the stairs, keeping the main to the outside walls only and running them through the stairs against the wall ala Daryl Kruse's Geneva Sub? If you really needed to extend the mainline run, you could then run a peninsula up from the bottom or down from the top on the left-side as it looks like that has over 16' of space in it. Just a thought,

Phil

[DKS]

If you really needed to extend the mainline run, you could then run a peninsula up from the bottom or down from the top on the left-side as it looks like that has over 16' of space in it.

That sounds a lot like what he's about to tear out...
 

[conrail98]

Right, but he doesn't have the singular IT area he wants on the current plan, he's got a lot of crossing over, etc., which is why I recommended the IT section hug the stairs and he put the main through them.

That sounds a lot like what he's about to tear out...
 

[Ian MacMillan]

Ian, if I remember your old plan, there was a lift-out at the bottom of the stairs, correct? Could you wrap the IT tracks around the stairs, keeping the main to the outside walls only and running them through the stairs against the wall ala Daryl Kruse's Geneva Sub? If you really needed to extend the mainline run, you could then run a peninsula up from the bottom or down from the top on the left-side as it looks like that has over 16' of space in it. Just a thought,

Phil

There was in the plans, up until about 3 weeks ago when it was actually built and found not to be acceptable to the wife. The main line was then routed under the staris, through a tread, along the stairs wall, and then along the back wall. Exacly like Daryl's like you pointed out. It was modeled after seeing his on YouTube. It worked out really well. It is to be the same in the new plan.

The only thing I see as an issue with running it along the walls, to say the stairs, then throught the stairs along the wall into staging and letting the IT wrap around the stairs is that if I think I am reading your post right, would be that trains would most likely have to stop before entering under the stairs and then you would have to walk around the stairs, to the other side of the basement, and then start your train under the stairs and then pilot it into staging. Right?  That would be a much longer walk then around "the blob", but I think more so may cause a bottle neck on the main line?

Sorry, I don't follow what area you're referring to... do you mean the area around the big blob can have 36-inch aisles?

If so, it winds up looking something like this--I added an access hatch in the middle of the blob since you won't be able to reach everything from the aisles.


If you mean a different area, then you'll need to spell it out.

Nope, thas exactly what I ment. Sorry if it was vague.

maybe think about the blob coming up from the bottom or the top there? Im trying to see it in my mind. At least you will get rid of some of the curves and ess curves. At least you can run long trains (350 - 400 axles) without string lining you train on the curves. That line is pretty much straight until you get East of Wilbraham to Palmer, then you get into some curves. Just my 2 cents.

Brian

Brian, the main line would not enter "the blob" at any point so there is no worry for string lining trains. The main line would be along the walls in the form that is in on the prototype, straight as you pointed out. The blob is strictly for the Athol IT.

[John]

The only thing I see as an issue with running it along the walls, to say the stairs, then throught the stairs along the wall into staging and letting the IT wrap around the stairs is that if I think I am reading your post right, would be that trains would most likely have to stop before entering under the stairs and then you would have to walk around the stairs, to the other side of the basement, and then start your train under the stairs and then pilot it into staging. Right?  That would be a much longer walk then around "the blob", but I think more so may cause a bottle neck on the main line?

If you put in a video monitoring capability - your crew could then run right into staging without ever having to follow the train .. the other option would be to put in monitor ckts like BCR did with his helix ...

[DKS]

I don't think is buildable; by my eye, it has about 2-3 times as much stuff as would comfortably fit.

Well, I overestimated what could fit in the blob. It's even less than I thought. More can fit, but it starts to get really compressed and dense, and even then it will still be a fraction of what you'd envisioned. And this is with the blob as big as it can possibly be.
 


For reference, the hairpin curve at the upper right is 11 inch radius.

[conrail98]

If you put in a video monitoring capability - your crew could then run right into staging without ever having to follow the train .. the other option would be to put in monitor ckts like BCR did with his helix ...

That's kind of what I was thinking if you have no "modeled" portion directly on the other side of the stairs for the main line. Without seeing full pictures of the basement, it's kind of hard to judge,

Phil

[MichaelWinicki]

That's a pretty large piece of real estate to have to navigate in order to follow your train from one side to the other... That would be made even more challenging if you had a crew working the switching area... Or having another crew heading your direction from the other side of the peninsula.

[DKS]

How about this: run the main straight through the stairs, as Phil suggested, and then extend the blob around the stairs on both sides to create a much larger IT area--it might be big enough to come closer to your original proposal in terms of fidelity to the prototype. Meanwhile, your mainline goes straight into the staging yard, and assuming you install a camera or two in the area at the bottom of the stairs, operators need not follow it past the lower corner to the left of the stairs.
 

[Ian MacMillan]

Hmmmmmmm, I actually really do like that design! And with that design, I could actually shift Springfield Amtrak a bit to the left on the top wall, allowing me to work in a version of the 7 span Connecticut River Bridge and CP 99 coming out of staging. So basically the layout would run from CP 99 to CP 96. The mainline run is much shorter, but I think reasonable seeing how much of the IT you could possibly get in there.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=amtrak,+springfield+ma&sll=43.755076,-71.152013&sspn=0.047489,0.132093&ie=UTF8&hq=amtrak,&hnear=Springfield,+Hampden,+Massachusetts&ll=42.101598,-72.599158&spn=0.012195,0.033023&t=h&z=16

Here are the ZTS maps that would be used;

Overall map - http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/-%20Zone%2074%20Map.pdf
CP 99 from Staging - http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-13%20West%20Springfield%20Yard.pdf
CP 98 Springfield Amtrak - http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-12.pdf
CP 96 Athol Junction - http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-5.pdf

Former Athol Industrial
http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-10.pdf
http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-11.pdf

Athol Industrial
http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-6.pdf
http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-7.pdf
http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-8.pdf
http://www.amoskeagnorthern.com/trackchart/Conrail/Albany%20Division/Vol%201%20-%20New%20England/Zone%2074%20-%20Springfield/74-9.pdf

[pedro]

up until about 3 weeks ago when it was actually built and found not to be acceptable to the wife

Uhhh, I think I found your problem

Sorry, couldn't resist. Surprised everyone else let that go!

[DKS]

I could actually shift Springfield Amtrak a bit to the left on the top wall, allowing me to work in a version of the 7 span Connecticut River Bridge and CP 99 coming out of staging.

You could do this with 100% accuracy. Here's a version of the plan with satellite images of the bridge and station superimposed at proper scale. If you added a small bulge at the upper left, you could model the whole station.
 


Larger version: http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/images/ian4.jpg

The only problem as I see it is that there would be nothing to do between the station and the IT area by the stairs--completely featureless mainline. Not that this is necessarily "bad," but is it something you can live with?

[DKS]

Rendered as a plan:
 


Larger: http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/images/ian4b.gif

[DKS]

And here's a rough draft of the IT section. In order to fit the space, portions of each line were cut, spliced, folded and mirrored. Most of the significant features are present. What do you think?
 


Larger: http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/images/ian4c.gif

[tom mann]

Someone get DKS a beer!  Awesome rendering...