Author Topic: WOT bi-levels VRE  (Read 6021 times)

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sirenwerks

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #15 on: December 05, 2010, 03:31:49 PM »
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FWIW - The MARC cars are former Metra cars. And C&NW had both 4 and 6 window version gallery cars which Metra inherited:





From what I've seen, the 4 windows only seem to be cab cars. These are easily butchered to retrofit cars for ADA lift compliance. I say this because MARC seems to operate these cars with a conventional single-level cab car, so the bi-levels seem to have lost their cab controls.  Never been in one to know though. The MARC cars ran on the Penn line for a while but were purchased to replace the older cars on the Brunswick; not sure why they didn't go straight into service.

The Rock Island also had 4 window cars which were not cab cars. I'm not sure where they went after RI ceased commuter operations but my guess is they went to Metra too. So my cab car alteration theory may be complete crap.



Now seeking Pacific NW N scalers to create a Modutrak-style modular club featuring NP's shared mainline between Seattle and Portland. PM me if interested.

jmlaboda

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2010, 01:12:02 AM »
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According the John's Alaska Railroad Web Page the cars were supposedly acquired from the Port of Tillamook Bay by Tom Rader (Rader Railcar and later Colorado Railcar Mfg.) and brought to Alaska around time that CalTrain retired the cars, with 10 in POTB paint coming for use on Tour Alaska, a land cruise operation that he was starting.  By 1987 Tour Alaska was sold to Princess Cruise Lines, their rail division, and operated still in their POTB paint with Princess emblems.

In 1992 Princess withdrew from operating to Whittier after the season had ended, with three cars being sold to the ARR.  No disposition on the other 7 cars is known.  The three that the ARR acquired were retired circa 2000, with 601 and 602 apparently being scrapped while 600 remained on the ARR and used for storage until it was scrapped in 2005.

John's roster is not fully clear on when exactly the cars came on line nor does it say exactly when Rader brought the cars to Alaska nor does it say specifically when they were placed into service for Tour Alaska.  Photos show them to be in POTB paint under Princess ownership as early as 1987 but whether or not that was actually the year that Princess acquired the cars is not known.

Other cars from the CalTrain/Southern Pacific operation ended up being rebuilt by Rader Railcar (which operated out of a Blimp hanger for several years on the POTB) into the earliest Ultradomes while others apparently were scrapped.

As for the term "Bi-levels" the cars are correctly called Gallery cars, not bi-levels because they did not have two complete levels.  That honor goes to the Superliners though some would argue that the Santa Fe Hi-level cars did have two levels.  The Bombardiere cars (as modeled by Athearn) are properly called "multi-level" as are the cars built for NJT and MBTA because they have three levels to them.

Rock Island's cars did indeed go to Metra but this was before the Rock folded.  And there were both cab cars and coaches of both the PS four window design as well as the Budd cars.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2010, 01:15:07 AM by jmlaboda »

Nato

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2010, 02:35:19 AM »
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   If I'am recalling correctly, Colorado Rail Car extensively rebuilt the EX SP cars and they no longer resembled their former selves, but had panoramic windows, windows on upper level roof,an open platform on one end. The company before going bankrupt also built newer versions of this style of car for Holland America/West Tours. Nate Goodman (Nato).

mcjaco

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2010, 09:45:01 AM »
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I also recall that some of the Matra cars that were sold to VRE were bought back by Metra a little over a year later, when ridership went way up, and they had to get cars quick.

jmlaboda

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2010, 01:03:59 PM »
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"I also recall that some of the Matra cars that were sold to VRE were bought back by Metra a little over a year later, when ridership went way up, and they had to get cars quick."

That is correct but IIRC it was a couple of years before they bought them back, and the reacquisition was to help cover new routes that they had added.  The cars that Metra got were cars that VRE hadn't rebuilt but had stored for possible future use and, as far as I can tell, they never received VRE numbers.

In talking about the WoT cars it would be great if he would consider doing the later cars as well and not just the Budd cars (two versions would be required since MILW had cars patterned after the "Pioneer" design with different corrugation being used and a change to the ends as well.  The corrugation was considerably smaller.)

The idea of using the WoT cars to represent CP/AMTL cars isn't that bad of an idea.  While not fully correct it would give such modelers something at least to work with and since the corrugation on the Canadian Vickers is so fine it probably wouldn't be all that much of a problem... in fact it may be possible to represent the corrugation with decals if one was so inclined to do so.  Definitely would make for some interesting models either way a person would go since the cars could be "good enough" for at least some.

Nato

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2010, 12:27:30 PM »
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              Utah Transit Authority purchased a number of the Metra cars at fire sale prices indending to use them on the new Front Runner commutter service between Salt Lake and Ogden (Land of Og) when it started up. They also ordered new Bi Level Bomb cars from Canada.Realizing fairly quickly what poor shape the former Chigago (Chi Town) cars were in the new service started up with the new Canadian cars and UTA purchased not at fire sale prices some Comet cars that had been NJ Transit. These cars in much better shape,have been nicely refurbished and most trains use 1 or at rush time 2 of these. The Metra cars still sit rusting away on several sidings near the shops (former UP Diesel Turbine shops) stripped of some parts. Nate Goodman (Nato).

mcjaco

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2010, 01:16:35 PM »
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The Metra cars were some of the oldest off the C&NW line, if I recall correctly.  All in really rough shape, which you'd expect after 50 years of daily service. 

sirenwerks

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2010, 01:22:58 PM »
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... in fact it may be possible to represent the corrugation with decals if one was so inclined to do so.  Definitely would make for some interesting models either way a person would go since the cars could be "good enough" for at least some.

Vic Roseman wrote an article in which he used strips of 1/2 round molding stacked up the car side to represent corrugation. It held the effect very well. Not sure if a 1/2 rounds available small enough though.

Would be interesting to see if the decaled detail idea would work for corrugation, as it does for vents.
Now seeking Pacific NW N scalers to create a Modutrak-style modular club featuring NP's shared mainline between Seattle and Portland. PM me if interested.

Virginia Atlantic

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2010, 04:19:51 PM »
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Looks like one of the RW alumni had some input on this: ;)


http://www.wheelsotime.com/bilevel-commute-coach

No MARC though.

(cool, though I don't model this sort of stuff)

Very nice, had no idea these were in the works tbh.

I won't lie, the idea that a scheme I put together was used on 1:1 equipment, and now will be modeled in N-Scale, definitely makes me smile.

Now if someone can do my F40 varant in N, I could do an "All Warfish Designed" VRE consist for my desk. :D
Modeling Passenger Rail in 1:1 Scale for 18 Years and Counting....

jmlaboda

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2010, 11:37:23 AM »
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My only question about the VRE models is this... How many wore this scheme?  While I have seen some photos of the cars in this scheme there are others that were simply painted a light gray with the have the whiskers only at the ends of the car, much like the new bi-levels that VRE has.

Still hoping as well to be able to nail down the history of the cars but that doesn't seem very likely.

Sokramiketes

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2010, 12:14:04 PM »
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FWIW - The MARC cars are former Metra cars. And C&NW had both 4 and 6 window version gallery cars which Metra inherited:

From what I've seen, the 4 windows only seem to be cab cars. These are easily butchered to retrofit cars for ADA lift compliance. I say this because MARC seems to operate these cars with a conventional single-level cab car, so the bi-levels seem to have lost their cab controls.  Never been in one to know though. The MARC cars ran on the Penn line for a while but were purchased to replace the older cars on the Brunswick; not sure why they didn't go straight into service.

The Rock Island also had 4 window cars which were not cab cars. I'm not sure where they went after RI ceased commuter operations but my guess is they went to Metra too. So my cab car alteration theory may be complete crap.


To clarify, when the 6 window cars were delivered C&NW wasn't running push-pull, so there was never a 6 window cab car delivered.  4 window cars were available in both flavors, regular and cab car.
Mike

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Virginia Atlantic

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Re: WOT bi-levels VRE
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2010, 02:18:28 PM »
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My only question about the VRE models is this... How many wore this scheme?

Total Units that wore the "Gallery II" scheme was 10.

VRE ran three different versions (coinciding with three different aquisitions) of former-METRA Gallery Railcars, called I, II and III.  

I wore a plain grey scheme with r/w/b side-end motif, 5 units.



II wore the scheme below, 10 units.

 

III wore METRA paint with "Virginia Railway Express" and logos only added, 20 units



35 Units total.

Quote
While I have seen some photos of the cars in this scheme there are others that were simply painted a light gray with the have the whiskers only at the ends of the car, much like the new bi-levels that VRE has.

That would be Gallery I.

And yes, they were the very basic base-point for the new Gen Gallery design, being that the new cars were ribbed stainless and would not have the abillity to wear an expensive or broad paintscheme due to design.  Did the best I could with the space I had to work with.

Quote
Still hoping as well to be able to nail down the history of the cars but that doesn't seem very likely.

For the Cars of Gallery II, these are the former METRA road numbers.  History beyond that was not provided, you'd have to research that yourself.

V421   7677
V422   7657
V423   7659
V424   7662
V425   7633
V426   7651
V427   7654
V428   7672
V429   7653
V430   7658

According to wikipedia, METRA Cars in the 7650-7681 were built by Pullman in 1956, and came to METRA via C&NW.

Gallery I cars were also Pullman cars from C&NW built in 1956.

Gallery III Cars were more varied, coming from a number of different batches of METRA Cars.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2010, 02:47:39 PM by Warfish »
Modeling Passenger Rail in 1:1 Scale for 18 Years and Counting....