Have you ever checked out MRH?

[DKS]

...except for the dearth of laser cut manufacturers...

Did you really mean this? I think you might have meant "glut of laser cut manufacturers"... seems like everyone and their cousin has a laser these days.

[sirenwerks]

Did you really mean this? I think you might have meant "glut of laser cut manufacturers"... seems like everyone and their cousin has a laser these days.

Oops, isn't today opposite day? Yes, I meant glut. Which I feel is keeping manufacturers with the capacity for quality out of the market, when they see the extent of the 'competition'.

Then we get back into the 'quality in N scale' quandary. The laser-cutters, with their plethora of shacks and shanties and goonie small industries, and their oversized window mullions and notch-together wall joints are keeping N scale toyish. Granted, they fill some specialty market needs - like standard station designs for different roads - but their quality is still low, for the most part.

Just last week someone on Atlas was boasting of a new art-deco Greyhound bus station model in N. The manufacturer adapted an HO design and gave the N scale version a larger footprint; which made it more realistic as a bus station, compared to the HO version, and it was a nice nod to the difference between HO and N scale and N scale's unique possibilities. However, the manufacturer used third-party window castings.

Using castings to get a finer quality was a smart move, but rather than use ones that fit an art deco aesthetic like on the HO version, the manufacturer chose ones that were completely too small and were of a Victorian design. The end product was a Victorian Deco mash-up that looked horrible (again IMO).

If they'd just recognize the tech's limitations in regards to a smaller scale and use something more suitable, like etching for windows and stripstock for corners, the tech could be a real boon for N.

However, it's an easy tech to get into and so, like you pointed out, everyone and their brother's doing it. It's garage- or basement-locatable and offers a JIT stock nature and invites slipshod product design. Unfortunately, the number of manufacturers don't seem to be thinning out through market attrition either. Curses!

I look at Shapeways.com and I think that business model holds promise for N scalers, especially as it matures and quality improves. I envision modelers throwing their designs up, say of vehicles or detail parts, and other modelers being able to get them as needed. No overhead for the designer - no technology to deal with, no shipping, no customer service - upload, tell people about it, and let it sell itself. If the same could be done for etching and laser-cutting, I think that would create a windfall of possibilities. Of course, you have to know CAD to do it all. If only I could win the lottery...

Rant over.

Bryan

[lashedup]

I think this is a really good discussion. You guys are absolutely correct that you need good content more than anything to make a worthwhile publication people want to read. I was only trying to point out that there is so much more in expense and time that goes into it. I haven't seen anyone say otherwise, but it appears Joe is paying competitive rates.

I own an online publishing company and it is very challenging in the online space. As David pointed out model railroaders *probably* skew towards an older (overall) demographic and many haven't grown up on computers - nor do they spend large portions of their day surfing either. Overall though I think a healthy portion know how to get to a basic website. That website needs to deliver content in a way that is easy to understand, organized well and easy to navigate. While the online world can't cater to every lowest common denominator (nor can you make everyone happy either), I think most of us can agree that the Internet is here to stay. For model railroaders, the biggest benefit of the online world is the ability to archive everything and create great knowledge bases. Take Jerry's passenger car index - once you've cataloged, photographed and created indexes for every model produced, you are done and it is there for anyone to use as a reference. Likewise with many weathering techniques, scenery how-to's, wiring tips and more, once the article has  been created, it is there for reference forever. Heck, you can even go back and edit the articles for new techniques or to flush the original out more.

Magazines aren't going away anytime soon but they are struggling quite a bit. The Internet isn't going away and only continues to get bigger and bigger. Think about all the tips and tricks you've learned in this forum and others. 20 years ago you largely only got that through magazines, clubs or run groups - and even then it was minimal. Hopefully Joe can stay on the good side of the curve and continue to evolve MRH.

- jamie

[sirenwerks]

Jamie,

I understand your point and acknowledge that, given the great democracy technology has created, online publishers have a very hard time positioning themselves in the market.

But 'forever'? As much as I wish this technology offered that, the supporting infrastructure is still human and faulted thus. It takes a communal effort to make things last forever, as people move on and technology changes. Look at the periodical database MR had been maintaining. An excellent resource, now gone, and I only wonder whether that was due to implied ownership rights or a real technological impasse. It certainly doesn't hurt MR that new modelers don't know or older ones forget there are other magazines out there.

In working for a railroad-related retailer, I've come to learn that it's not just demographics that effect the market, like age, but there's a heavy dose of psychographics weighing on the hobby. A lot of customers still do business face-to-face or over the phone because of their paranoia of the internet. Their loss, as they're missing out on the fun, but it does make marketers trying to reach the consumer body twice as much work. An advertiser like BLMA, who's tech savvy, is gonna eat up MRH. I think Walthers' crowd is still predominantly of the survivalist ilk. MRH will have to deal with the fact that advertising dollars are gonna be harder to gain from the big boys if the likes of Wally hasn't quite understood what the internet's all about yet. Ah, but this too shall pass.

Bryan

[lashedup]

Jamie,

I understand your point and acknowledge that, given the great democracy technology has created, online publishers have a very hard time positioning themselves in the market.

But 'forever'? As much as I wish this technology offered that, the supporting infrastructure is still human and faulted thus. It takes a communal effort to make things last forever, as people move on and technology changes. Look at the periodical database MR had been maintaining. An excellent resource, now gone, and I only wonder whether that was due to implied ownership rights or a real technological impasse. It certainly doesn't hurt MR that new modelers don't know or older ones forget there are other magazines out there.

Actually I agree with you. In the long run all of this media stuff will evolve and hopefully the creme will rise to the top. MR's latest debacle with their archives is a head-scratcher. I know someone that offered to take it on for free and they declined, so it makes you wonder what's really going on there.

If I worked to spend the next 20 years creating something that I wanted to be passed down as a solid resource, I'll put checks and balances in place to ensure that it can happen. Hosting, even for a large site is not that expensive anymore. There are lots of talented people in our hobby that can lend a hand to maintain something that benefits them and others for free. Human nature and greed can get in the way if you let it, but much like your own personal estate, you can put things in place to make sure it transfers the way you intended to the people that you trust.

Good discussion.

- j

[jfugate]

Regarding the defunct magazine index, have you seen this thread on the MRH site:

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/discountinued_mag_index

Once I found out the index on the Kalmbach site was history, I started working to marshall the troops to stand up a replacement. I also talked to the NMRA about seeing if Kalmbach would surrender their index resources to them for the good of the hobby.

Unfortunately, things bogged down in negotiations so in the meantime, a group of my contacts went ahead and started rebuilding the index again from scratch using modern technology and I'm happy to report the new-and-improved index is in beta test right now. We'd like to see the NMRA take ownership of this new index for the benefit of all, but we're not getting a lot of response from the NMRA right now, unfortunately.

So regardless of what the powers that be are doing, my contacts are off getting a replacement stood up, NMRA or no NMRA. So take heart, if I have anything to say about it, we will keep the best resources on the internet alive in one form or another and freely available for the good of the hobby.

If hobby vendors and hobby organizations want to help support  keeping helpful stuff like this freely available to the modeler, then that seems like a no-brainer to me. Good-of-the-hobby is also good for business - if you're paying attention, that is!

One of my personal philosophies is while other people talk about what should be done, I prefer to go off and do it. That's how MRH was born, for example. Same story with the index - it's needed so let's make it happen. Forget hand-wringing or endless lamenting, if it needs done, then let's go do it.

--Joe Fugate
   Publisher, Model Railroad Hobbyist

[Chris333]

I would love to have an index back. I have every MR back to the 1970's and many more. I would use their index sometimes 2-3 times a week to look stuff up in my own mags.

[Ed Kapuscinski]

Kudos to you on that Joe. A great effort, and it truly shows who the new leaders of the hobby are.

[sirenwerks]

Ditto on Ed K. call out. I wouldn't trust the NMRA with it, from what I've heard. They're awash in they're own politics and lost in their own little world. Key word there is little. They're out of touch.

Bryan

[chuck geiger]

Bryan you are so right (don't want to get off topic) but...I tried becoming part
of the San Joaquin Valley Division, local chapter and it was so dipped
in politics, I quit. Plus the modeling of the members wasn't up to a$$hat
finger nail modeling. "He has more modeling experience in his fingernail than
you do in your whole body."