Author Topic: Track planning - Would you mirror the prototype?  (Read 1963 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7673
  • Oh, it's an Owl!
  • Respect: +517
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Track planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« on: September 26, 2010, 09:44:04 AM »
0
  In looking at what could be my future layout space, I have come to the bitter sweet conclusion that if I were to 'daylight' a closet, I can get everything I want in that space if I mirror the prototype track arrangement.  Not only can I get all the important elements of Waterloo, it looks like I can even extend the mainline to Cedar Falls junction which was a branch line on the CGW.

  I'm actually quite OK with the idea of mirroring the track, it's the buildings that give me pause.  Many of the featured structures would also have to be built mirrored which could result in many hours of work for buildings that would have to be rebuilt if a more proper layout space arises.  As an example, the freight house is a cut stone building that will most likely be hand carved. or have some sort of master pattern made for a plaster casting.
  
  Anyone with thought/experiences with a similar situation?

Jason
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 09:33:55 PM by wcfn100 »

TiVoPrince

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 5156
  • Respect: +2
    • http://www.technologywrangler.com
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 01:19:31 PM »
0
Absolutely
but I would also be planning structure construction in a modular fashion that allows you to 'master' parts should a 'better' space become available.  Don't delay your dreams, because time marches on even when you waffle.  Actually, time seems to move faster when you dawdle...
Support fine modeling

Ian MacMillan

  • Global Moderator
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11887
  • Gender: Male
  • Learn to use the god damn search feature!
  • Respect: +37
    • Conrail's Portland Line
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 01:39:52 PM »
0
Heres my outlook on it....are you mirroring the track plan or just viewing it from the opposite angle?

If you are mirroring the track plan and N/S E/W stays the same the trackage may not work out for trains and it may not operate the way you want it, and the buildings being "wrong" will be the least of your worries. If you are viewing it from the opposite angle where everything flips, including cardinal direction then you will be fine.

I would go ahead and do it. If you think that you are going to build a larger layout at another time, pick your key structures and build them very well detailed so that they can easily be in the "correct" configuration. If you do not see yourself building this layout again in a proper space I would not worry about building them "backwards"

How likely are you to get that other space that comes along? Many of my buildings, because my layout is really linear, have no backs to them. If I build another house, or another layout in the same space, I may not be able to use those structures again...but someone may want them for their layout. I have entire trackside buildings that are only painted and detailed on 1 or 3 sides, they will never work from the "front".
I WANNA SEE THE BOAT MOVIE!

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7673
  • Oh, it's an Owl!
  • Respect: +517
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 02:44:33 PM »
0
I'm talking about a straight mirror.  I could do an 'opposite view' but it screws with some of the curves and important track placements.

Here's the space.




Here's the proto track plan.




Here's how it fits if I mirror it.


All of the tracks and buildings stay I'd want on the backside are there.  The return baloon in the middle keeps the RI trackage to the inside as well which allows the cgw to swing away to the left front corner and also keeps the front of the RI station viewing the isle.

I wouldn't even consider this except that it's perfect.

As for the buildings, there's no work now that would traslate to rebuilding.  The only thing I could do is see if I can still use them without mirroring.  I could maybe do the passenger depot and the RI passenger depot, but the crossing tower and freight depot wouldn't translate.

(The dashed line is a negotiated line down the room from the door to the window.  It's open to that end.)


Jason
« Last Edit: September 26, 2010, 09:34:45 PM by wcfn100 »

learmoia

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1707
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +176
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 05:03:32 PM »
0
So your going to mirror Highland Yard it looks like...

Could you run that curve into the west end of Highland tight against the wall then work the curve a little further towards the isle a bit.. then use the gentle curve inside the yard to get yourself Parallel to the wall your working against?  I'm guessing the WCF&N curve is going to curve off to nothing either way you go with it..   If you did mirror.. it would give you room to include the water tower (if it was there at that time).. But you could photo backdrop it the other way too..

Just my thoughts driving by the prototype all the time..

-- I run into the same thing.. Living in Waterloo, IA.. modeling Conrail.. no one around here would ever know the difference.. you have the same freedom (but I would know ;) )
Don't Neglect the Jewel Case!

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7673
  • Oh, it's an Owl!
  • Respect: +517
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 05:16:12 PM »
0
So your going to mirror Highland Yard it looks like...

Could you run that curve into the west end of Highland tight against the wall then work the curve a little further towards the isle a bit.. then use the gentle curve inside the yard to get yourself Parallel to the wall your working against?  I'm guessing the WCF&N curve is going to curve off to nothing either way you go with it..   If you did mirror.. it would give you room to include the water tower (if it was there at that time).. But you could photo backdrop it the other way too..

Just my thoughts driving by the prototype all the time..


The whole plan is mirrored not just the yard i.e. all left turns are now rights etc.  The proto plan I posted is the 'normal' track.  

The water tower would be in front of the track (isle side) still.  I need to see what year it was built.  The WLO interchange would go behind a cut and have a couple storage tracks.  I need a place for the WLO car as it was 75% of the cars the CGW brought to Waterloo.  I could even extend the WLO to a second level.



Jason

DKS

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11065
  • Resident fafgin' icehole
  • Respect: +1634
    • DKS Home
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 05:39:00 PM »
0
Rather than an "E" configuration, why not go with (sort of) a "G"?

"Life's a piece of sh!t when you look at it."
                                       —Monty Python

learmoia

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1707
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +176
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 06:22:29 PM »
0
Well.. Are you mirroring the whole thing because your mirroring Highland?.. The rest looks like it can go either way.. (Except your turns would still be reversed to get to the next section anyways..)

-- Hmmm on your G Idea.. .. What if you put Cedar River Bridge and Downtown along the dashed line.. Then followed the prototype curve to the CGW/RI Joint trackage down your right wall.. Then placed the IC Bridge along the 11' wall on the left and you can include the Hardees crossing (sorry.. modern term) and grade towards linden on that wall...

Then use the lower 9' wall for the west highland yard.. Use the yard curve to round the corner then the lower left wall for your east end of Highland.  I don't think anything would be mirrored that way..   When you look at Highland real life.. it's enough of a curve that you can't see the east end from the west end and vise versa.. so it's a good spot to hide a curve around a wall.  I don't think anything would be mirrored this way :)

OR.. What if you turned your G Idea 90 degress in relation to your room..

I think you need to try to maintain downtown waterloo as straight as much as possible so you don't clash with the streets.
Don't Neglect the Jewel Case!

learmoia

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 1707
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +176
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 06:23:29 PM »
0
Woops.. Linden = Highland.. :)
Don't Neglect the Jewel Case!

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7673
  • Oh, it's an Owl!
  • Respect: +517
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2010, 06:28:42 PM »
0
Well.. Are you mirroring the whole thing because your mirroring Highland?.. The rest looks like it can go either way.. (Except your turns would still be reversed to get to the next section anyways..)



The rest gets mirrored to keep the passenger and freight depots and 'A' tower on the back side of the tracks (in the example space).


Jason

wcfn100

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7673
  • Oh, it's an Owl!
  • Respect: +517
    • Chicago Great Western Modeler
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2010, 06:49:03 PM »
0
David, the 'U' part is on the short list of the things I've considered.  I was just going to leave off the upper portion, which I'll call 'east' Waterloo.


It's hard to see all of what going on on the east side so I cropped just that part.




The CGW makes a 90deg and crosses over the RI.  The RI depot is just a half a block up from that.  All of the CGW industry lays to the south and the CGW turns south to leave town.

Spatially I like it but, I would probably have to lose the crossing of the RI and just run the tracks parallel.  I've got several old drawings done that way as well because it always seems to come up as a space consideration.  This keeps the RI depot looking trackside (which I usually try to do) and also the RI yard to the backside.  The only really odd thing  is the extended distance from the bridge to the RI crossing.  Maybe if I put some pen to paper I could see how it really lays out.


Thanks David.


Jason


Sokramiketes

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 3894
  • Proactive advocate of truthiness
  • Respect: +133
    • Modutrak
Re: Trank planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2010, 08:58:55 PM »
0
With how much I actually get done versus what I think I can accomplish in a given year's worth of modeling time, I've decided to keep the prototype scenes in modular form.  Personally I'd start a couple modules of your favorite area of the three shown, and just start building per the prototype.  Realistically are you going to finish the mirror image layout before a move comes up, or interests change, or, or, or...  What if you built all the prototype buildings first, and connected them with unitrack until they were all done?  It depends what you really what to accomplish first.

Mike

www.modutrak.com
Better modeling through peer pressure...

mionerr

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 109
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: 0
Re: Track planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 01:15:54 PM »
0
Depends on how much it bothers you. I have an area in stockton that I want to model for operating interest, the Port of Stockton. Trouble is it is west of the mainline and that won't work. I could make it work by having operators on the West side of the mainline instead of the east side, but then I'd have the same problem with the branchlines that go to the east. So I putting the Port on the eastside. No one around here is that familiar with the area, so I'm not losing sleep over it.
Roger Otto
Pueblo, CO

bbussey

  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 7000
  • Gender: Male
  • Respect: +986
    • www.bbussey.net
Re: Track planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2010, 08:11:50 PM »
0
The way the DKS has roughed it out actually gives you more room for additional trackage and more aisle space in addition to not having to mirror the plan.
Bryan Busséy
NHRHTA #2246
NSE #1117
www.bbussey.net


DKS

  • The Pitt
  • Crew
  • *
  • Posts: 11065
  • Resident fafgin' icehole
  • Respect: +1634
    • DKS Home
Re: Track planning - Would you mirror the prototype?
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 09:34:50 PM »
0
Jason, what scale did you use for the map sections in the plan? When I try to trace over them with a track planning tool, the maps look to be roughly half of actual size. Since things can't be modeled foot-for-foot, have you chosen select features to include? And if so, could their orientation be adjusted a little here and there? This may be a better compromise than mirroring everything--and still having to selectively compress.
"Life's a piece of sh!t when you look at it."
                                       —Monty Python