Author Topic: Any idea how to make this?  (Read 2644 times)

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daniel_leavitt2000

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Any idea how to make this?
« on: September 12, 2010, 04:53:56 AM »
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The Worcester station was far too easy. It only took 5 years to complete. And that was a kit. I would like to build this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SouthStation.agr.JPG

Boston's South Station. I want to build it as seen in the late 1990's complete with the bus annex over the tracks. Any suggestions for materials to use, parts commercially available and where to get blue-prints/drawings?
You've crossed the walls, excelled
Further along through their hell
All for my heart, I watch you kill
You always have, you always will
Now spread your wings and sail out to me

delamaize

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2010, 07:06:05 AM »
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depends on your prefered material, if it was me, I would use styrine renforced on the back at a curve for the base, the build up everything from there with styrine shapes and such, carving in details as I go.
Mike

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up1950s

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2010, 07:48:58 AM »
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Could you have picked a harder station to model ?

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2010, 08:53:21 AM »
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I liked Washington's Union Station, but I like the stub end terminal of Boston better. Besides, I can put it on a special Ntrak module now and use it on my layout latter.

I was thinking of using o scale cinder block sheet for the cut stone. I would love to do this as a laser kit but I can't imagine how long that would take. Right now I need to figure out how to get windows, pillars and cornices that match. I wish I had some scale drawings of the buiding.
You've crossed the walls, excelled
Further along through their hell
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You always have, you always will
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Philip H

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2010, 09:39:57 AM »
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Lord Zox has done some great cut stone work on his Mississippi River module - you might look at his techniques . . .
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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2010, 09:47:52 AM »
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I know you're probably looking for more accuracy, but doesn't Kato make a "Big City Bank" building with a curved front and all the romanesque details?  Could work as a stand-in until the right one comes along...

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sirenwerks

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2010, 11:08:33 AM »
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My two cents... It seems to be two curved surfaces with flat-faced box structures superimposed on top.

For the curved sections - which I imagine supporting the flat-faced sections, which are added on as separate sub-structures - have a plastics dealer bend a piece of CLEAR plexi (or other plastic that will take glue) to the right curvature of the window surfaces, then layer on sheet styrene to match the stone surfaces. Actually, it looks like there are two diameters you'll need, the mezzanine and upper stories.

In another life I was a painter and worked on concave and convex surfaces. I had a plastics dealer blow out 5' diameter domes that I did a series of paintings on. Unfortunately, I lost them in the Clipper Mill fire. But the dealer was easy to work and the pre-formed plastic will save you a lot of time and structural worry headaches. Consoder having them weld the entire building sub structure together since they have the right glues.

The columns are gonna be tricky, though Ionic is the easiest of the types to replicate and, luckily, those columns don't seem to be true to the Roman archetype; they have a smooth shaft rather than fluted. The caps (top) can be fashioned from a styrene box structure, with the scroll-end pattern carved in on the exterior side. Cast those so they all match,  then turn one tapered column shaft on a lathe, round base while you're at it, and cast up those too. I think Detail Associates offers the railing type.

Windows sashes and mullions can be decaled on? Though, with the thicker plastic, you're gonna loose the interior depth of the window boxes. The cast iron work over the entryway is gonna be a pain, depending on how detailed you want to capture it. Maybe decal a photo of it onto a flat surface? (that'll take some fancy Photoshop work though, to get the keystone and curve out of a ground-level photo.)

The stonework on the building's top, with the clock and the eagle? Oi... Do you want the clock to work?
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Zox

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2010, 04:15:34 PM »
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I wish I had some scale drawings of the buiding.

Well, here's a one-meter-per-pixel overhead shot, from what was once called Terraserver:
http://MSRMaps.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=10&X=1653&Y=23454&Z=19&W=2

That will give you a good value for overall size. You can get better views from some of the other mapping services, but it's harder to know if the scales they provide are accurate.
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bbussey

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2010, 05:28:32 PM »
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Could you have picked a harder station to model ?

New London Station.  That's one on my list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:New_London_Station.jpg

Sirenwerks is right in that if you break it down to smaller elements, most of it is not difficult.  Some of the intricate areas such as the cast iron work could be etched.  The mullions could be drawn and laser-printed on Micro-Mark decal film and applied over clear styrene.

Christopher Brimley over at N Scale Limited has built buildings far more intricate than this from scratch using Evergreen styrene, and has detailed step by step construction articles on that site.  You could review those, or contact him through the site to seek his advise on how to proceed on a potential South Station.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2010, 05:37:16 PM by bbussey »
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CoalPorter

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2010, 11:00:45 PM »
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I agree with the guys that say to start with a basic curved CLEAR plastic shell and then glue details to that. Major shapes can be added on with styrene blocks etc. Evergreen really makes some large stock to work with.

For brick/stone details you might want to consider some brick paper or printed decals etc. I have seen some really cool stone patterns on the net.

For the columns, I would hand build a master pattern and then resin cast the rest. It looks like you need enought columns to take the time to resin cast. How good they are depends on how good you build the master.  ;)
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daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2010, 12:28:19 AM »
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I like the curved plastic idea. I was toying with the idea of making a flat master for the entire building face and curving the mold when casting but building it up from clear plastic makes more sense.

Measuring the footprint should not be that difficult. I can use the tracks in the overhead pictures to measure the width of the station. I am nor sure how to measure the height of the structure, the windows, pillars or any of the details on the walls. The station stands next to a lot of buildings so you need to take very tight shots to get it into a picture. This causes distortion where the lower portion of the building is much larger than the top, making measuring from photographs very hard.

Anyone good enough with photoshop to remove this distortion if I provide the photos?

I was also thinking of the cut stone. The O/S concrete block or paving stone from The N Scale Architect may be a good source for the cut stone facade: http://thenarch.com/Builders%20supply.htm
You've crossed the walls, excelled
Further along through their hell
All for my heart, I watch you kill
You always have, you always will
Now spread your wings and sail out to me

wcfn100

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2010, 02:03:38 AM »
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Anyone good enough with photoshop to remove this distortion if I provide the photos?



If you know someone with 3D drawing software, by using the known (or approx.) footprint, you can try to match perspective with a photo (3 visible edges on 3/4 for example) end then extude/extend a box for the height.  I tested this method a while back and it seemed to work very well if you take the time to match the camera perspective, building angle and any other distortions.  I think if you included the pillars in the 3D drawing, you'd get a very good result.  My brain tells me it is probably more accurate than just the PS lens correction but it would be great to test them side-by-side.

I did this maybe a year ago, but I might still have some files to show how it works.

Does Google still have their free 3D software?  I might be able to do this.


Jason

daniel_leavitt2000

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2010, 02:23:28 AM »
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More digging....

Man, it is amazing what a few hours infront of a computer can do. I started using Bing rather than google and found a UCon page dedicated to railroad buildings:
http://railroads.uconn.edu/stations.htm#BostonSouthStation

Listed in the index was some floor plans for the old South Station Headhouse. Thats a start, but the plans are in bad condition and only viewable in Conneticuit. It dawned on me that South Station was the major hub for the New Haven and i found the New Haven Historical Society web page. They have a forum and I searched for "South Station plans"

http://thenhrhtanewhavenrailroadforum.yuku.com/reply/39451/t/South-Station-interior-photos.html#reply-39451
here was one post:
Quote
Ed,
There aren't any photos of South Station, but the best source of info for South Station was written by the lead designer, George Francis, in the American Society of Civil Engineers publication dating back to around 1900. This publication's purpose was to share knowledge of the engineering problems of new projects, and how they were overcome.

If you can find such a copy (supposedly BPL has one, but an engineering school library should have some), it is full of building plans showing details of most structural items including the head house and the train shed. It also goes into detail about the underground loop.

It's probably referenced in "Boston's Depots and Terminals" in the back...

So on to the Boston Public Library's website I go. I searched for George Francis and found this:
http://www.archive.org/details/southterminalsta00fran

This book, available online has some plans in it. The online quality is poor so I may have to view it in person. Time to plan a trip to photograph the station and search the library.
You've crossed the walls, excelled
Further along through their hell
All for my heart, I watch you kill
You always have, you always will
Now spread your wings and sail out to me

sirenwerks

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2010, 12:03:14 PM »
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Daniel,

Nice find with the PDF book. At least you now have scaled drawings of the station floor plan and the headhouse cross section which you can base an approximation of the project on.

The HAB has a few photos that may help too. Go to http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/collections/habs_haer/ and look up "Boston South Station", the first of the return entries should be "Northeast Railroad Corridor, Amtrak Route between RI/MA State Line & South Station, Boston, Suffolk, MA". In that portfolio, towards the end is a shot taken from on high in the 1970s, before the surrounding buildings were constructed. There's also a portfolio for Tower No. 1 that has at least one photo of the station's trackside. Make sure you download the highest quality images.
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bbussey

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Re: Any idea how to make this?
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2010, 01:20:40 PM »
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For brick/stone details you might want to consider some brick paper or printed decals etc. I have seen some really cool stone patterns on the net.

N-Scale Architect now makes the styrene brick sheets nearly identical to those that Holegate & Reynolds used to market.

I was also thinking of the cut stone. The O/S concrete block or paving stone from The N Scale Architect may be a good source for the cut stone facade: http://thenarch.com/Builders%20supply.htm

Or you could lay block by block, which is what Chris Brimley does.  For most of the details, he uses lots of Evergreen styrene strips and an NWSL Chopper.  This photo of a light wash to verify the fitting of the detailed styrene components shows the seams between the separate stones:
http://www.nscalelimited.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/hud51.jpg
Reviewing the construction blog of the Hudson Life Building would yield many ideas on how to scratchbuild intricate buildings such as South Station from styrene without totally pulling your hair out.


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