Online resource for era/timeline questions...

[lock4244]

Yes I do model Clinchfield but both Steve and I came to the conclusion long ago that its the rolling stock that YOU guys want that's important and not what we need for our personal layouts so we don't let that affect our project choices.  CPAA? really? The original brown with the silver door?

Just pointing out the irony there... and the un-irony since the hoppers are coming for CRR.

Yes indeed the CPAA in their original scheme... I could use half a dozen:
http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetails.php?PhotoID=18196

[wcfn100]

Also, in regard to the NP centerbeam info. Id rather know when the 70' cars became common than when the first small group of cars were made.

Define "common"? Kind of a McDonald's approach to history, isn't it? Over 1,000,000 sold? They became common sometime after NP introduced them. Boom. There ya' are. Are we going to add when box cars became common? Tank cars? Flat cars?

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=68827

"Cars from these series are specially equipped with bulkhead ends, steel 'A' frame down the center of the car and chains, cables and clamps providing adjustable tie-downs, for handling packaged units of lumber and building products." - Jan, 31 ORER.

Sound familiar?

There were 272 of these cars by Jan. '67. (and a car I need to model if anyone has any info  )

Besides the centerbeam on the NP car probably being more integral to the design of the car, I doubt you could make much of a distinction between the two concepts.


Jason

[Bluford Craig]

As for Algoma Central, WC did buy them but my impression was that it remained "Algoma Central Railway" until the purchase by CN. Is that not the case? Did they begin to paint AC engines for WC, because that should definitely be mentioned on the timeline.

When WC took over in February 1995, all the AC diesels were immediately renumbered and had WC emblems placed on the nose and rear. Eventually they were all repainted into WC colours.
The exception is the AC F-units. They were aquired in 1995 and put into service _after_ the WC takeover. These were fully intended for the passenger trains and repainted into an AC scheme that matched the ex-VIA/CN passenger cars that had been acquired starting in 1992.

Noted and will appear with the next upload of the site. Thanks.

Craig

[Bluford Craig]

Okay,
Just added to 1966, "Early centerbeam flats appear by the hundreds" with a link to that photo. If they were already in the January 67 ORER than they were definitely around at least in late 66. Addition will appear in the next upload of the site.

Thanks,

Craig
www.bluford-shops.com

[sirenwerks]

For the purpose of this list, I'd love to see the Kauss-Maffei locomotives ignored. I get the impression it's not supposed to be a comprehensive list of railroad history, but one that is targeted towards modelers trying to figure out the eras of things.

For example, now I know that if I were to model the 70s, I had better put nose ladders on my Fs.

But by pointing out NP having the first centerbeam car in 69, it doesn't help the guy looking at it on his iPhone while at MBK and trying to figure out if he'd too far off getting that bargain prices RC 3 pack of TTX centerbeams. THAT seems to be the point of this list, unless I'm incorrect.

The K-M example was only, well, an example, not meant as a suggested inclusion (though important for the guy who models Conrail 1989 and wonders if he can realistically operate those K-Ms he wants to buy at MBK). I'm just trying to wrap my head around this... I can see your logic, and certainly such a specific situation at POS grounds your arguement. I guess I'm not a generalist nor do I own an iPhone and there are others, I presume, who would be like me and might find different context to use the resource. But both your example and mine have the same fix when the customer's holding the product, read the build or service date on the model.

I guess the guy who bought that 3 pack to run on a road without any lumber customers still got a deal, eh? What, that information won't be included? My point is the info's relative to the user and some logic on the user's part is applicable in all examples. How much data is provided on the source only feeds the decision-making process. Someone who concentrates on a refined point in time might appreciate a less generalized approach. PIC, knowing when nose ladders where mandated doesn't mean, poof, suddenly all Fs had nose ladders, they were installed over time, prior to or after the mandate. It's a benchmark.

I don't see the difference in level of relevance between the takeover of the Algoma Central and the NP's intro of the first Centerbeams. The former means AC paint schemes started to disappear, but they didn't disappear immediately. The latter means the cars started to appear. They're both benchmarks. Yet, one is includable and the other not? That strikes me as a random or obtuse application of logic, hence my queries. It's a matter of context because they're both comprehensive details. I'll sit on my hands now and fight my Apsergers-fueled need for logic.

[wcfn100]

Okay,
Just added to 1966, "Early centerbeam flats appear by the hundreds" with a link to that photo. If they were already in the January 67 ORER than they were definitely around at least in late 66. Addition will appear in the next upload of the site.

Thanks,

Craig
www.bluford-shops.com

  I don't know that you can infer anything timeline related from the KDTX cars.  I was just trying to illustrate that the 'concept' of a center beam was well underway before '69.  The CGW made one concept flat as well as I'm sure many roads did.

  My assumption is that the NP cars were the first or one of the first that was designed from the ground up using the center beam as part of the structure of the car as opposed to modifying an existing car and can maybe be noted for that.  This would also allow for the flats to increase in length.


  And FWIW, the CNW purchased the FDDM&S and DM&CI the same year as the CGW merger.


Jason

[sirenwerks]

My assumption is that the NP cars were the first or one of the first that was designed from the ground up using the center beam as part of the structure of the car as opposed to modifying an existing car and can maybe be noted for that.  This would also allow for the flats to increase in length.

Jason, that's correct. The NP cars were the first cars designed specifically by Thrall as centerbeam cars. They were the first that could be identified as what is commonly referred to as centerbeams. The example you provided, while technically a centerbeam design, is a far cry from today's design and it might be misleading to imply such cars were available so early.

[wcfn100]

The example you provided, while technically a centerbeam design, is a far cry from today's design and it might be misleading to imply such cars were available so early.

I 100% agree. 

It's sort of a disfunctional list at this point with specific facts and general ideas piled together.

I think it shoud be noted that NP took delivery of the first 'modern' centerbeam cars (if that's the case).  But using '69 as a start date isn't really useful for general centerbeam use either and I think that's the hang up.

I wonder if someone could do a side-by-side or overlapping timelines.  One with specific, hard dates and another with general practice.  Either way, this should really go into a database. Then you could format the data however you wanted to.

There is also a ton of other information that could be included like proposed mergers (CGW and SOO = awesome, for example), or maybe when certain demonstrators tested on certain railroads.  But to do that, you'd need to be able to sort the info.


Jason

[davefoxx]

You also missed CR being created, April 1st 76.

He didn't, it's there under 1976, far right, top of page.  It was the first thing I checked! ;D

But wasn't Conrail broken up in 1999?  The site says 1997.

DFF

[Bluford Craig]

But wasn't Conrail broken up in 1999?  The site says 1997.

DFF
[/quote]

Yeah, you're right. The fight for Conrail got rolling in 1997 but the actual takeover of operations by NS and CSX was in June of 99. Corrected for the next upload.  Thanks.

Craig

[lock4244]

CP introduces the script image in 1963.

The HR-616 debuts the 'Draper Taper' cowled carbody in 1982? A sort of flop, but still somewhat significant.

Also, in 1998, both CN and CP saw the last of their MLW/BBD locomotives pulled from service. This ended the era of 251 powered locomotives working on class 1's.

[Ryan87]

As for Algoma Central, WC did buy them but my impression was that it remained "Algoma Central Railway" until the purchase by CN. Is that not the case? Did they begin to paint AC engines for WC, because that should definitely be mentioned on the timeline.
Craig
www.bluford-shops.com

Algoma Central ceist to exist as a separate railway in 1995... the Name was still used to promote the tour train...

Edit: yes they repainted locomotives almost right away

[CBQ Fan]

Great info!  Thanks Craig!