Trackplan Help

[clickaus]

Hey Guys
I was just wondering if someone could take a look at my trackplan. I have just started in the hobby so I don't have to much knowledge on the subject. I found a plan on Trainboard that I really liked and have tried to draw it up on Xtrkcad with mixed results. Being new to the hobby I really wanted a plan I could print out and follow easily.
The plan has pretty much everything I wanted (bridges, tunnel, water and an abandon track area) but I have made a few changes and I am not sure if they will work. Also I didn't know how to put the grades in so I just wrote it on the plan.

Here is the TB Users Plan (I also have his permission to use it aswell)
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/77580

Here is my take with Xtrkcad
I have made some changes to the bottom left and top right part of the plan. I have added an abandon track to the plan that I want to model hopefully like this http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/clinic_33.htm I also have added a 3 line engine house I already have made the model for. I am hoping to extend the river scene along the front of the layout aswell.



Here is the Xtrkcad file if anybody wants a closer look or fix anything 
http://www.filefront.com/16989037/SOUTHERN%20PACIFIC.xtc


Any help/advice would be greatly appreciated
I also have started a blog http://clicks-trains.blogspot.com/
Thx Paul

[wm3798]

We've undertaken a number of design exercises here recently.  I'd recommend you take a look at some of the discussions in those threads as you look at your own plan.

My first thought is always what do I want the trains to do while they're on the layout.  Are they thru freights going from one place to another?  Are there locals to work the industries on the layout?  Where does the traffic come from and go to?  Then you get into the geography you're dealing with.  Is it a Granger out on the prairie working the elevators?  An Appalachian coal hauler?  A metropolitan switching district?

Or, (and there's no crime in this) is it a collection of cool scenes you want to run trains through?

Give us a little bit of background information to work with, and that will help guide our commentary.

Lee

[asciibaron]

that layout was the inspiration for my changes to the L&HR plan to turn it more into a WM/N&W coal road.  i have some issues with the plan.  how far can you reach?  you will have to reach over the roundhouse to get to trains in the hidden area.  how will you access a derailment in the hidden trackage along the back wall?  i dislike the parallel section where the hidden loop comes out.  have it join the main or connect it as a siding.

[H Lee]

I would remove the small loop from the point you have labeled starts to decline / station area / tunnel entry.

It is a small radius with very steep grades (3% to 4%) - you will not be able to pull very many cars per locomotive over that section of track. If it will not bother you that each loco can only pull 4 or 5 cars (or fewer) it will be okay to leave it.

But, if you want a more realistic length train to be pulled, if you connect the trackage at the point you have 'starts to decline' directly to the section in the tunnel and move the tunnel further along that section of track forming the loop on the right side. You might get down to 1 1/2% grade (or even 1%) which is much, much better.

[DKS]

Both the original plan and your revised version present some nice photogenic scenes, but I have to wonder about the layout's overall functionality. Before delving into a series of design revisions on this plan (which may or may not prove fruitful), I'd take Lee's remarks to heart, and examine what it is you wish to accomplish with the layout, taking into consideration the geographic area you'd like to feature and railroads to represent.

I see that benchwork is under way, however. Here I would heed Steve's comments about being able to reach things. Is the layout a free-standing island, or is it against a wall? If the latter, there is some cause for concern.

P.S. Glad you liked my abandoned track clinic...

[clickaus]

Thanks for all the replies. 
I will try an answer all the questions but some things I just don't know about yet. (still learning)

My first thought is always what do I want the trains to do while they're on the layout.  Are they thru freights going from one place to another?  Are there locals to work the industries on the layout?  Where does the traffic come from and go to?  Then you get into the geography you're dealing with.  Is it a Granger out on the prairie working the elevators?  An Appalachian coal hauler?  A metropolitan switching district?

I have never had a layout so atm I am still trying to think of what would be good for me. Probably i would want a few industries and a little town area with a station. Some staging and engine storage area would be good as well. I also want a mainline to cover pretty much the entire layout for my kids to run some trains as well without running into dead ends.
To be honest I think you hit the nail on the head when you wrote this because it applies to me the most

Or, (and there's no crime in this) is it a collection of cool scenes you want to run trains through?

I definitely want a river scene, also some nice bridges and tunnels as well.
I am also thinking of the 1950s era for the layout. I know my first train I bought isn't from this era but I like all the old signage and trains from then. I am going with a Southern Pacific theme but I have to do a bit more research on them.

i have some issues with the plan.  how far can you reach?  you will have to reach over the roundhouse to get to trains in the hidden area.  how will you access a derailment in the hidden trackage along the back wall?  i dislike the parallel section where the hidden loop comes out.  have it join the main or connect it as a siding.

I see that benchwork is under way, however. Here I would heed Steve's comments about being able to reach things. Is the layout a free-standing island, or is it against a wall? If the latter, there is some cause for concern.

I can walk around the whole layout but in future I would like it pushed against the wall. I did think about how far it come out (900mm/3F) being a long way to reach over. Atm I have only built the two ends so I can modify the bench to whatever size. I was thinking of going to 2 foot middle part or even like this so I can still have a nice curve coming along the front. Also with the centre loop taken out (see plan later in post) I could push most of the track back and make this area even smaller


As for access to the hidden part that is a good pick up I would have none if it goes against the wall. I have moved the tunnel on the plan below

I would remove the small loop from the point you have labeled starts to decline / station area / tunnel entry.

It is a small radius with very steep grades (3% to 4%) - you will not be able to pull very many cars per locomotive over that section of track. If it will not bother you that each loco can only pull 4 or 5 cars (or fewer) it will be okay to leave it.

But, if you want a more realistic length train to be pulled, if you connect the trackage at the point you have 'starts to decline' directly to the section in the tunnel and move the tunnel further along that section of track forming the loop on the right side. You might get down to 1 1/2% grade (or even 1%) which is much, much better.

Did you mean something like this


One other thing I would like, would be to have two main lines running around the whole layout but I'm not sure if its the done thing.
I am going to use peco 80 for my trackwork because I have read its good for beginners and less forgiving.
Also I am going to use the cookie cutter method with foam to fill in the gaps.

P.S. Glad you liked my abandoned track clinic...

Your site was one of the first ones I read when researching trains. I would love to see more photos from your Version IV plan. I was originally was looking at that layout to built but I didn't have the room length ways. Great site




Thanks again for all the help 
Paul

[asciibaron]

i've made some quick edits to your plan.



creating the siding into the yard ladder gives you a yard lead to switch the yard while a train can pass on the main.  at the top of the plan, you had no way to run around the train to set off cars and you had no place for trains to pass each other.

the biggest issue i see with the plan is a lack of staging.  maybe you can add at least 2 tracks to the right side an extend the "tunnel" via false hillside (open top) to behind the roundhouse.  you will want someplace to stop a train so it will have appeared to have left the world of the layout.

[clickaus]

I've tried to add in your adjustment and have also made a few of my own with the size of the layout. The plan is messy but I will redo it once I have made all the adjustments. I added a double line down the left and I will also add one down the right aswell

[DKS]

Well, I'm not sure how far you would want to deviate from the original plan, but based on the kinds of things you want to accomplish, I might recommend something like this:
 


I believe it has all of the elements you want, and I think they're arranged so as to provide a little more drama. I twisted the mainline to create a long, dramatic trestle that crosses the main, some sidings and a river. A disused crossing, with abandoned track on one leg, I think adds an interesting little scene. The enginehouse and future roundhouse are brought in front of the yard, so they're more easily seen and more accessible. Grades are simple, with one on each end to raise the main over itself; otherwise, everything is flat. Staging could perhaps one day be added along the back on a narrow extension, if that becomes something of interest.

[MichaelWinicki]

Well, I'm not sure how far you would want to deviate from the original plan, but based on the kinds of things you want to accomplish, I might recommend something like this:
 


I believe it has all of the elements you want, and I think they're arranged so as to provide a little more drama. I twisted the mainline to create a long, dramatic trestle that crosses the main, some sidings and a river. A disused crossing, with abandoned track on one leg, I think adds an interesting little scene. The enginehouse and future roundhouse are brought in front of the yard, so they're more easily seen and more accessible. Grades are simple, with one on each end to raise the main over itself; otherwise, everything is flat. Staging could perhaps one day be added along the back on a narrow extension, if that becomes something of interest.

What a great track plan David!

You created some nice scenic/photo opportunities.

[clickaus]

Well, I'm not sure how far you would want to deviate from the original plan, but based on the kinds of things you want to accomplish, I might recommend something like this:
 


I believe it has all of the elements you want, and I think they're arranged so as to provide a little more drama. I twisted the mainline to create a long, dramatic trestle that crosses the main, some sidings and a river. A disused crossing, with abandoned track on one leg, I think adds an interesting little scene. The enginehouse and future roundhouse are brought in front of the yard, so they're more easily seen and more accessible. Grades are simple, with one on each end to raise the main over itself; otherwise, everything is flat. Staging could perhaps one day be added along the back on a narrow extension, if that becomes something of interest.

WOW Just like that. I love it. Thank-you so much David
It has everything I wanted. I love the rail crossing/abandon track Idea. I already have a great Idea for the trestle bridge. I think that will be the show piece of the layout. I just hope I can do the plan justice. What I also really like is how you kept the station at the front of the layout. I think the kids will really like this part of the plan stopping and starting from the station.
I'm wrapped  Thanks again
Paul

[wm3798]

Once again David earns his keep.  Great interpretation.

Now, the only thing I would take issue with is purely scenic... Railroads generally follow the river course, and would want to avoid building any more bridges than necessary...especially for an industrial siding.  Maybe bend the river so it follows the loop on the left side.

I think overall the track plan is now more workable as a "starter"... I was going to suggest you start with the ubiquitous door layout, but I think the size and scope of this are right on.

Have fun with it!

Lee

[DKS]

Now, the only thing I would take issue with is purely scenic... Railroads generally follow the river course, and would want to avoid building any more bridges than necessary...especially for an industrial siding.  Maybe bend the river so it follows the loop on the left side.

Duly noted and adjusted.

[davefoxx]

How about instead of the abandoned rail crossing, flip that and the adjacent industry, so that the abandoned line runs alongside the river, as many lines did?  Then, the abandoned route could run under the bridge and its end (at the layout edge) could be better camouflaged.

Otherwise, what a great plan!  DKS strikes again!

Hope this helps,
Dave Foxx

EDIT: I see that the river has moved with DKS's recent revision while I was drafting my post, which would now make following the river with the abandoned line more difficult.  However, the abandoned line going under the mainline would possibly allow reducing the grade on the left side of the plan somewhat, as the abandoned line doesn't have to be level.

[DKS]

How about instead of the abandoned rail crossing, flip that and the adjacent industry, so that the abandoned line runs alongside the river, as many lines did?  Then, the abandoned route could run under the bridge and its end (at the layout edge) could be better camouflaged.

Otherwise, what a great plan!  DKS strikes again!

Hope this helps,
Dave Foxx

EDIT: I see that the river has moved with DKS's recent revision while I was drafting my post, which would now make following the river with the abandoned line more difficult.  However, the abandoned line going under the mainline would possibly allow reducing the grade on the left side of the plan somewhat, as the abandoned line doesn't have to be level.

Placing the abandoned line under the main then means it drops below datum (or 0" reference), which complicates construction considerably. As it is, the grade starts right at the crossing and continues all the way around to the point where the bridge crosses the siding (as opposed to the end of the bridge), so the grade should not be too bad. If needed, the grade could start in the tunnel, back under the upper sidings; this would raise the crossing just slightly, which would not be too messy to build.