Author Topic: So, how would YOU model this?  (Read 1573 times)

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2-8-8-0

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So, how would YOU model this?
« on: June 23, 2010, 09:47:32 PM »
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Good thing i dont own a layout yet; all these questions I keep wrestling with would be problematic!

Someone told me on here (not sure what thread, I seem to start a lot of em ;D) to model your own area, and an era you are familiar with; well, that really struck me. Hard. I live in northeast Ohio, in the heart of the rustbelt in a city called Ashtabula, and we  have a huge coal operation in our harbor, owned by NS, and operated jointly by CSX/NS. We have a CSX yard here, 3 lines criscross our town (the former NYC Water Level, Nickel Plate's main, and a former PRR line, from Conway*i think?* to Ashtabula) and all see heavy traffic. We still have rail service to some of the chemical plants and power plant on the east side of town, we still have a part of PRRs west avenue roundhouse, though now it is an office for a scrapyard, we have the old NYC passenger depot on Station Ave, and we get several lakers a week. Railroad town, indeed...

But wow, how it used to be. NYC and PRR both operated huge dock facilities, and our harbor was insanely busy; Great Lakes Engineering built ships, from lakers to submarines. We had steel mills, chemical plants, numerous heavy industries in two seperate complexes, loads of local service, Rockwell brake. Both NYC and PRR had roundhouses along West Avenue (NYCs was huge) and NYC had a major passenger stop here. One of the Vanderbilts owned a home in Ashtabula! A lift bridge for the NYC to cross the Ashtabula River....8 Huletts...o, and yeah, a third lil' railroad called Nickel Plate ran through here, though their yard facility was in Conneaut, 20 or so miles east. I have a photo of our harbor during the winter layup in 1948, with TWENTY EIGHT lakers docked here...railroad heaven?

Someday, I would love to try to model this...but wow, how would you even start? And thats the question; is something like this, even with massive compression, even possible to capture? To model everything is simply impossible, and given that I am not one of them Vanderbilts meself, I dont expect to ever own a 5000 sq foot basement. So, if you were to try to model something like this, even in a fair amount of space (say a 2 car garage/average basement/large spare room(s), maybe 20x30 or so) how would you even do it? Or would you even try? The docks are my primary interest, but the local freights, yards, passenger runs....well, I would hate to cut any one facet out.

See what a few pics of an M1 and a comment like "model what ya know" did to me?
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Bob Bufkin

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 09:52:24 PM »
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Sure it could be done.  It's called selected compression.  Still need lots of space for something like that.  You want an ore boat, check this out.  Not cheap but it gives you a general ideal of how big it would be in N.

http://www.bearcomarine.com/resin.htm

wm3798

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 09:56:06 PM »
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Don't forget the B&LE's massive ore docks at Conneaut!

Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets

Lee Weldon www.wmrywesternlines.net

2-8-8-0

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 09:59:02 PM »
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Don't forget the B&LE's massive ore docks at Conneaut!

Lee

Yeah...thanks....for that matter, may as well throw in Nickel Plate's yard and roundhouse/shops too!]

sigh...
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Bob Bufkin

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 10:06:44 PM »
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Classic Trains did an article on the ore docks on the Greak Lakes awhile back.  Great issue.  You should try and find it.

womblenz

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 10:29:36 PM »
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You are lucky to be so close to the lake

Try doing it from across the world   ;D ;D ;D

Here's where I started

http://therailwire.net/forum/index.php/topic,13882.0.html


Cheers Warren

Chris333

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 10:33:00 PM »
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I would love to see any photos up there of the 1948ish era  :)

If you go here: http://www.historicaerials.com/ you can bring up 1952 in Ashtabula.  There are 2 turntable right across the wye from each other. It also shows a yard on the other side of the river from the one there now.

2-8-8-0

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 10:58:21 PM »
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Wow, thanks for the responses...positive (and inspiring) stuff!

Womblenz, i saw your ore dock thread a while ago, and that is quite a project; cant wait to see it when its done! I guess ships loading there will unload here someday, eh? ;)

Chris, Ill see if i can scan some of my photos for you; to say that the Harbor and the railroad infrastructure was impressive would be an understatement. That is one aggravating website, but ill do my best to explain what it all is (or was).

That wye is the intersection of the PRR line and the NYC, and where the two could interchange. This is also were NYC turned north to get to their docks. The turntable and roundhouse on the east (right) is PRR, the one on the West is NYC, with their fairly large yard. South of the NYC can be seen another east-west line, which is Nickel Plate's Chicago line. Moving north, the PRR will stay on the west bank of the Ashtabula river, the NYC will cross over a lift bridge, just south of which is Great Lakes Engineering's shipyard. The PRR dock is the leftmost of the 3 large protrusions, on the west side of the river; they had no Huletts, using four old Pickans Mather clamshell unloaders, along with one McMyler coal dumper for coal loading. The next two protrusions are NYCs docks, split by the large Minnesota slip. They have 8 Huletts (4 on each bank of the slip) and some McMyler dumpers of their own. Each large protrusion also has a large Hoover/Mason travelling hoist, for loading cars. Just south of the PRR dock you can see the lift bridge on Bridge Street (I live on that street, hehe!) and it is still here, and quite operational; it opens every half hour.

So yeah, some stuff happening in Ashtabula, especially in 1948 or so (the era I would likely pick, may go a bit earlier so I dont feel pressure to locate or build Niagaras!)

Ill look for some good pics, I may have some of Conneaut as well. By the way, there is a NKP Berkshire in a park on display in Conneaut (at the old NYC depot, alas!)

edit; PRR had 6 Pickans Mather unloaders, not four. Always think "unloaders...Huletts...groups of four" when thinkin' unloaders. Sorry!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 07:32:48 AM by 2-8-8-0 »
Just say no to dummy couplers.

Chris333

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2010, 11:36:44 PM »
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I've been to the Berkshire as a kid. Also over and under the draw bridge. Back then there was a very LARGE ship inland of the bridge that was stuck on sand, but it was a while ago. The ship was here:
http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qzgwhz880hhk&scene=34197222&lvl=2&sty=b
I was looking up at it, was huge to me back then. I didn't even notice the tracks right behind it  :-[

2-8-8-0

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Re: So, how would YOU model this?
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2010, 08:20:54 AM »
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O wow, what an awesome site! I havent seen that before! You can see pretty much whats here now (and very well!) on that site.

A new toy, this is!

Edit; Chris, there was a large barge stranded there for many, many years, but thats the only one I remember; by the time I was born, the Lakers had got to big to make the turn there, and GLE closed its doors in 1968 (sad year, isnt that when Alco closed shop too?) I think the Army Corps of Engineers finally towed it out and sunk it behind the wall, east of the PRR dock (in the area just easy of the dock, they have let that slip fill in with sand; when I was a kid, ships could still access that side of the pier)

You used to be able to see part of  the wreck from the breakwall, but it looks like Lake Erie has taken care of all that was above the surface.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2010, 04:48:28 PM by 2-8-8-0 »
Just say no to dummy couplers.